Cloned to an NVMe M2 SSD and won't boot


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c3k
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I'm running W10/64 home and Macrium7.1.2899. (Plus, I just updated my rescue thumbdrive with the latest PE.)
My current OS drive is a Samsung 850 Evo (a 2.5" form-factor SSD). I purchased, and installed, a Samsung 960 Evo (an NVMe M.2 card). Both are 500GB.

I installed the NVMe and booted to Win10.​ I did not format or do any Windows operation on the new drive.
I opened Macrium and ran the Clone operation. It took just under 30 minutes and reported a success.

I shutdown the computer and unplugged the 850 Evo (the original OS drive).
It failed to boot, with a "missing partition boot sector" message.
I booted using the rescue drive. I selected the Macrium repair boot option. It gave 4 (5?) options, all pre-ticked. I kept them that way and ran the repair.
I got green checks for all but two. One of them (Master Boot Record?) had a green circle arrow symbol (as if it would take effect after a reboot?).
I had a red "x" for "Updating Partition Boot Sector"

I cannot boot into Windows. I tried the Macrium rescue repair three times, all with identical results.
I could not get my windows install thumbdrive to repair it either. (I may have an outdated win10 iso.)

I shutdown, disconnected the other drives (which I had left installed before, some HDDs), removed the 960, reconnected the 850.
The ONLY drive connected is my original OS drive, the 850.
It boots normally.

Why didn't the clone work?

Thanks,
Ken​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
jphughan
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The Rescue Media can be booted in either Legacy BIOS or UEFI mode.  Normally it doesn't matter which mode you boot in, but the Fix Boot Problems operation actually does work differently based on which mechanism you used, so if you're trying to fix a Windows installation configured to boot in UEFI mode, you want to boot the Rescue Media in UEFI mode as well.  If your Windows disk uses the GPT layout, it's set up for UEFI booting; if it uses MBR, it's set up for Legacy BIOS booting.

If you've already done that, did you just perform a standard clone, i.e. did you clone all source partitions over to the destination rather than leaving any behind, and did you maintain the same partition sequence?  If so, I'm not sure what to suggest at this point.  Typically clone operations of OS disks are very straightforward, with just the possible need to run Fix Boot Problems afterward.

Edited 27 February 2018 5:04 PM by jphughan
Nick
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c3k - 27 February 2018 4:10 PM
I'm running W10/64 home and Macrium7.1.2899. (Plus, I just updated my rescue thumbdrive with the latest PE.)
My current OS drive is a Samsung 850 Evo (a 2.5" form-factor SSD). I purchased, and installed, a Samsung 960 Evo (an NVMe M.2 card). Both are 500GB.

I installed the NVMe and booted to Win10. I did not format or do any Windows operation on the new drive.
I opened Macrium and ran the Clone operation. It took just under 30 minutes and reported a success.

I shutdown the computer and unplugged the 850 Evo (the original OS drive).
It failed to boot, with a "missing partition boot sector" message.
I booted using the rescue drive. I selected the Macrium repair boot option. It gave 4 (5?) options, all pre-ticked. I kept them that way and ran the repair.
I got green checks for all but two. One of them (Master Boot Record?) had a green circle arrow symbol (as if it would take effect after a reboot?).
I had a red "x" for "Updating Partition Boot Sector"

I cannot boot into Windows. I tried the Macrium rescue repair three times, all with identical results.
I could not get my windows install thumbdrive to repair it either. (I may have an outdated win10 iso.)

I shutdown, disconnected the other drives (which I had left installed before, some HDDs), removed the 960, reconnected the 850.
The ONLY drive connected is my original OS drive, the 850.
It boots normally.

Why didn't the clone work?

Thanks,
Ken

Hi Ken

Was the source OS not booting from NVMe? If so, then you'll need to run ReDeploy on the clone to enable Windows support for NVMe. 

https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW7/Re-deploying+Windows+to+new+hardware+using+Macrium+ReDeploy

Kind Regards

Nick - Macrium Support

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c3k
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jphughan - 27 February 2018 5:03 PM
The Rescue Media can be booted in either Legacy BIOS or UEFI mode.  Normally it doesn't matter which mode you boot in, but the Fix Boot Problems operation actually does work differently based on which mechanism you used, so if you're trying to fix a Windows installation configured to boot in UEFI mode, you want to boot the Rescue Media in UEFI mode as well.  If your Windows disk uses the GPT layout, it's set up for UEFI booting; if it uses MBR, it's set up for Legacy BIOS booting.

If you've already done that, did you just perform a standard clone, i.e. did you clone all source partitions over to the destination rather than leaving any behind, and did you maintain the same partition sequence?  If so, I'm not sure what to suggest at this point.  Typically clone operations of OS disks are very straightforward, with just the possible need to run Fix Boot Problems afterward.

That's good to know. The one time I hit F12 (boot menu) I saw an option to boot either as Sandisk (the thumbdrive brand) or UEFI Sandisk. I chose the former. Later, I just let it boot.

I'll try the UEFI style. ​​

Nick - 27 February 2018 5:17 PM

Hi Ken

Was the source OS not booting from NVMe? If so, then you'll need to run ReDeploy on the clone to enable Windows support for NVMe. 

https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW7/Re-deploying+Windows+to+new+hardware+using+Macrium+ReDeploy

I'll read up on that and see whether it (coupled with the @jphughan suggestion) works.

Thanks to both of you for your assist.
It'll be several hours before I ​​​try again.
Thanks,
Ken​​​​​
c3k
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@jphughan Using the Rescue PE thumbdrive in UEFI mode did not change the inability to boot.
@Nick I read the KB article. ReDeploy showed an interesting message: in the "Detected Devices" where I set drivers for the ReDeploy, it successfully shows a gear symbol with a green check and "Standard SATA AHCI Controller" message, twice. It also has an error message: gear with red exclamation and "Standard NVM Express Controller"
It states: Standard NVM Express Controller from Unknown Vendor. No driver has been found for this device. Click 'Locate Driver' to specify a valid .inf file.


Well, when I initially installed the 960 Evo NVMe drive, I never downloaded anything for it. The machine recognized it and I immediately opened Macrium and cloned my SSD to it.
- Should I have formatted the drive?
- Should I have re-run the Rescue thumbdrive after installing the NVMe drive?
- Is there a location which has an .inf file for this drive? (In raw BIOS the drive is recognized. In Macrium it is recognized and successfully targeted as a clone.)
Thanks,
Ken​​​​​​​​​​
jphughan
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Windows 10 has native support for NVMe, in fact that’s existed since Windows 8, so I’m surprised the ReDeploy wizard is asking for a driver. After all, you were able to run the clone operation to the 960 Evo within Windows 10 without supplying a driver beforehand.  I do however remember a recent Reflect update had notes mentioning some change to how ReDeploy dealt with NVMe devices though, so maybe there’s an extra step of some kind here. Hopefully Nick has a suggestion for you shortly.

In any case, formarring the 960 Evo beforehand wouldn’t have mattered since that would have been overwritten by the clone operation, and running the Rescue Media wizard after having installed the 960 Evo wouldn’t have mattered either because the Rescue Media can already see the 960 Evo.
Edited 28 February 2018 12:17 AM by jphughan
jphughan
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One further thought: There actually IS a Samsung NVMe driver that works on Windows 7-10.  Some Samsung NVMe SSD customers prefer to use because it sometimes performs better than Microsoft's native driver.  You could probably supply that driver to the ReDeploy wizard if you wanted.  The problem is that Samsung only provides it packaged inside an installer file, and the installer only even runs when it detects a Samusng SSD installed, so getting to the INF files can be a bit tricky.  But if you want to tinker with it, you can find it by clicking the Driver heading on this page.  However, you should also be aware that at least in the earlier versions, the Samsung NVMe driver created some stability issues and other undesirable behavior that didn't exist with the native Microsoft driver, and sometimes the behavior wasn't even the type of thing that would lead users to think that their NVMe driver might be responsible.  For example, prior to V2.2, using the Samsung NVMe driver would cause the system to blue screen when simply creating a VHDX file on the SSD as part of the VM creation wizard in Hyper-V.  If I had seen that behavior, it would have been quite a while (and quite a bit of hair detached from my scalp) before I suspected my storage controller driver might be the culprit, which is why I typically think carefully about whether to implement various "optimization" measures like this.

Edited 28 February 2018 12:29 AM by jphughan
c3k
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jphughan - 28 February 2018 12:25 AM
One further thought: There actually IS a Samsung NVMe driver that works on Windows 7-10.  Some Samsung NVMe SSD customers prefer to use because it sometimes performs better than Microsoft's native driver.  You could probably supply that driver to the ReDeploy wizard if you wanted.  The problem is that Samsung only provides it packaged inside an installer file, and the installer only even runs when it detects a Samusng SSD installed, so getting to the INF files can be a bit tricky.  But if you want to tinker with it, you can find it by clicking the Driver heading on this page.  However, you should also be aware that at least in the earlier versions, the Samsung NVMe driver created some stability issues and other undesirable behavior that didn't exist with the native Microsoft driver, and sometimes the behavior wasn't even the type of thing that would lead users to think that their NVMe driver might be responsible.  For example, prior to V2.2, using the Samsung NVMe driver would cause the system to blue screen when simply creating a VHDX file on the SSD as part of the VM creation wizard in Hyper-V.  If I had seen that behavior, it would have been quite a while (and quite a bit of hair detached from my scalp) before I suspected my storage controller driver might be the culprit, which is why I typically think carefully about whether to implement various "optimization" measures like this.

Perfect timing! I've just downloaded and installed the Samsung v2.3 driver into my original SSD. I could not find the driver. (Computer management/storage controllers/Samsung 960 -> Properties pointed me to c:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\secnvme.sys. However, I could not find that file (show all) nor direct the rescue disk to update by browsing to it. )

My next step is to clone the SSD with the Samsung v2.3 installed, to the NVME drive. Then I'll see what happens.
This is not how I thought this would work. (I've swapped many an OS drive...this is a pita.)​​​​
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c3k - 28 February 2018 12:38 AM

Perfect timing! I've just downloaded and installed the Samsung v2.3 driver into my original SSD. I could not find the driver. (Computer management/storage controllers/Samsung 960 -> Properties pointed me to c:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\secnvme.sys. However, I could not find that file (show all) nor direct the rescue disk to update by browsing to it. )

My next step is to clone the SSD with the Samsung v2.3 installed, to the NVME drive. Then I'll see what happens.
This is not how I thought this would work. (I've swapped many an OS drive...this is a pita.)

Well if you've got it installed now, you can try Double Driver, which is a free utility that extracts driver packages from the drivers installed on the system.  That may work.  I've used it to get INF packages to support system image deployment scenarios for some drivers that aren't offered in a "friendly" packaging.  It's not the most intuitive interface ever, but it's not bad, and I can't argue with the results.  It can even recreate fairly complicated GPU driver packages.

But even if this works, hopefully Nick responds with insight as to why a ReDeploy of a Windows 10 installation isn't correctly finding the built-in NVMe driver.  Sorry you're having such trouble here; it definitely shouldn't be this difficult.

Edited 28 February 2018 12:44 AM by jphughan
c3k
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jphughan - 28 February 2018 12:43 AM
c3k - 28 February 2018 12:38 AM

Perfect timing! I've just downloaded and installed the Samsung v2.3 driver into my original SSD. I could not find the driver. (Computer management/storage controllers/Samsung 960 -> Properties pointed me to c:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\secnvme.sys. However, I could not find that file (show all) nor direct the rescue disk to update by browsing to it. )

My next step is to clone the SSD with the Samsung v2.3 installed, to the NVME drive. Then I'll see what happens.
This is not how I thought this would work. (I've swapped many an OS drive...this is a pita.)

Well if you've got it installed now, you can try Double Driver, which is a free utility that extracts driver packages from the drivers installed on the system.  That may work.  I've used it to get INF packages to support system image deployment scenarios for some drivers that aren't offered in a "friendly" packaging.  It's not the most intuitive interface ever, but it's not bad, and I can't argue with the results.  It can even recreate fairly complicated GPU driver packages.

But even if this works, hopefully Nick responds with insight as to why a ReDeploy of a Windows 10 installation isn't correctly finding the built-in NVMe driver.  Sorry you're having such trouble here; it definitely shouldn't be this difficult.

I found the driver. Well, the secnvme.sys file, anyway. It was where the properties dialogue said it would be, but the macrium rescue software could not find it when I selected "update driver software" (after highlighting the nvme driver) and specified the location. I've now copied it to the rescue disk's "Driver/disk" folder. I'll be able to navigate to it there​
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