By Keith Weisshar - 25 March 2021 2:45 PM
Why is it taking a long time to get Macrium Reflect 8 ready for release? How long is it still in testing for? I read the February 12, 2021 post on ghacks.net that says it will be released in March 2021.
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By Froggie - 25 March 2021 3:31 PM
Gee... I wonder what GHACKS knows that we don't know? I can't answer any of your questions, Keith... and I'm not sure anyone else here can either. If Macrium won't respond, you'll just have to wait...
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By Froggie - 25 March 2021 3:35 PM
...and I might add, if I was Macrium I would surely wanna make this release as trouble free as possible for its users... especially after the result of the myriad of issues that followed the release of v7.
I figure the longer we wait, the better the released product will be.
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By jphughan - 25 March 2021 6:48 PM
Even setting aside that March 2021 isn't over yet, why do you think GHacks is a reliable source of information on release timeframe given that the article author didn't indicate a source for that tidbit and that Macrium thus far hasn't provided any release timeframe information on their own website or forum? Why would you assume that the V8 beta length is purely based on time required for testing as opposed to Macrium possibly having started the beta when users could begin testing some of the new features while Macrium continued to work on building remaining new features that they've decided need to be part of V8? Why would you think that after already asking this question in two other threads you created and elsewhere in other people's threads -- and not getting a response from Macrium on any of them -- that somehow THIS thread would be the one that made a difference? So many questions! 
Software development takes the amount of time it takes. It's probably taken a bit longer over the past year thanks to everyone working on their own from home, which might particularly affect a product like this where testing on a variety of physical hardware is important. I'm not sure whether you'd want Macrium to release V8 sooner by shipping it with fewer new features or with more bugs, but it will launch when it launches.
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By Drac144 - 25 March 2021 9:38 PM
While I do not like to disagree with JP, I think some of his comments are true for Macrium, but NOT for a lot of software developers. I know several software developers (at least one whose product I use) that release software based on a date, NOT on whether it is actually ready for prime time. They then provide updates every couple of weeks or so to fix all the bugs found in their initial release. Macrium, tends to work the way JP describes how a new release should be handled -: get it working THEN announce a release date.
I appreciate that Macrium handles upgrades the way they do. As mentioned, there was a bad experience when V7 was released and I am sure Macrium (and Reflect users) would not like to have that happen again. Hopefully they will not do the release until they AND the beta testers thing it is ready. Even then, there could be a few issues that only occur for a very small number of users.
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By dbminter - 25 March 2021 10:05 PM
At least Macrium is not pulling the current video game developer trick: pick a release date for a game and release it on that date, even if it doesn't work. Then, post release, ship patches and updates until it does work. I'd rather a software/video game work BEFORE it's released and then patched after bugs are found post release.
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By jphughan - 25 March 2021 10:28 PM
+xWhile I do not like to disagree with JP, I think some of his comments are true for Macrium, but NOT for a lot of software developers. I know several software developers (at least one whose product I use) that release software based on a date, NOT on whether it is actually ready for prime time. They then provide updates every couple of weeks or so to fix all the bugs found in their initial release. Macrium, tends to work the way JP describes how a new release should be handled -: get it working THEN announce a release date.
I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing. I said, "Software development takes the amount of time it takes." But I didn't say, "All software developers actually take that amount of time before they release their software."  More frequent releases on a predictable schedule does seem to be the new trendy model -- very likely related to the growing trend of selling software on a subscription basis -- but I personally am not sold on it. The promise was that consumers would get new, shiny things more quickly, but still on a schedule that allowed for planned testing periods. Windows 10 has been released under that model for a few years now, with releases supposedly arriving roughly every 6 months around April and October, and I wouldn't say it has gone so well. Several such releases have had some fairly serious bugs, up to and including permanent deletion of user data, which occurred for a non-trivial number of customers on some recent Windows 10 update. And this constant focus on rapidly building new features seems to have left me in a constant state of simply exchanging one set of bugs for another, rather than ever getting to a point where a given feature state of the product actually works.
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By Reflecting Mirror - 26 March 2021 2:13 PM
FYI: I subscribe to the Macrium newsletter and in either the January or February newsletter that stated Macrium is still on target to release v8 by end of Q1 2021.
The March newsletter stated in closing:
"That's all for this edition - we'll be back next month as we move even closer to the release of Macrium Reflect 8."
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By pokeefe - 26 March 2021 8:25 PM
+xWhile I do not like to disagree with JP, I think some of his comments are true for Macrium, but NOT for a lot of software developers. I know several software developers (at least one whose product I use) that release software based on a date, NOT on whether it is actually ready for prime time. ... I have no inside information, but I'd bet it's not the developers that set the release date for most products. Those products (such as a competitor to Macrium Reflect) that get released on a schedule - regardless of problems uncovered during beta tests - are probably released over the objections of the developers ... especially if those developers are also the level 2 (or higher) support team.
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By Froggie - 26 March 2021 10:22 PM
Well, since we're all engaging in speculation here  , I'm gonna add my 2-cents. I've been involved in many Beta development programs along my timeline and Patrick's "bet" above has been true in many, many cases... some of them provided minor disasters at release time.
[Speculation] In the case of Macrium, I have assisted them in (2) of the last (3) product releases. With v6 it was an unOFISHUL assistance. The app would up in the wild and a bunch of us jumped into the fray and found many issues. We set up an unOfishul feedback path to the Macrium developers and I'm sure they found our discoveries very useful.
Since v6 went so well, I offered my services once again prior to the v7 release. They politely declined, saying they would be doing almost all of it in house. When v7 was released it had many issues and took a while to straighten out the release.
For v8, it looks as though much work was done in house, but an "ofishul" public Beta was offered to a select group of clients, mainly based on their product expertise and each being "almost experts" in their particular area of product use... I was offered an invitation to the public Beta. From what I've seen during this phase, the public part of the Beta has been extremely useful to the Macrium developers, uncovering many fringe areas of product performance. Like v6, these types of "in the wild" testing usually produce many extreme cases which may break or make certain areas of product performance. I would like to think, speculating here of course, that Macrium may have learned something from their in-house only Beta testing of v7 and decided that "in the wild" testing, controlled or otherwise, is a very valuable value added process to the entire Beta program... I know I would if I was a product developer. As a result of this type of feedback, I'm sure a much better product will arrive at v8's doorstep. [/Speculation]
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By Drac144 - 26 March 2021 11:29 PM
It has been said that, "Money makes the world go round". Many software products are released based on time not whether they are ready. The company needs a steady stream of money. so they schedule releases every spring or fall (or both in the case of Microsoft).And it is typically management that declares BOTH the features and the time of the release. That just does not work!!
There is an old adage that every project is compose of three aspects: The specifications, the time needed to complete the project and the resources (including money) that are required to complete the project successfully. Management can specify any two of those but the developers get to specify the third. Of course, not following that rule is an option, but it typically leads to disaster.
For example: management specifies the features they want in their new product and says it needs to be done in 6 months. The developers then tell management what resources (equipment, personel, money, etc) they will need to meet management's goals. If management does not comply, problems will occur.
In a well run company there are negotiations and eventually a balance is reached in those three aspects that all parties agree upon.
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By backuper - 15 April 2021 3:28 PM
MR should take all the time it needs until it's finished.
There is no advantage to ship a beta release, like many do.
Backup is serious business and I prefer to have a stable product very much. This is a key point why I like MR very much as much backup solution.
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By Keith Weisshar - 13 May 2021 6:06 PM
Will Macrium Reflect v8 be released in May or June of 2021?
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By Froggie - 13 May 2021 6:39 PM
Which year? 
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By Keith Weisshar - 13 May 2021 11:05 PM
2021
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By pokeefe - 14 May 2021 12:01 AM
I think that was Froggie's way of saying "We don't know." Macrium will make v8 available when it's ready. They are unlikely to tell us first. People in the Beta test might know, but I assume they are under a nondisclosure agreement so they couldn't say if the did know.
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By Froggie - 14 May 2021 12:18 AM
The Public Beta Team does not know that information (much easier for Macrium than a non-disclosure )
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By Froggie - 18 May 2021 11:25 AM
Hmmmm... this just showed up in the KnowledgeBase, we must be close!
https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/New+in+Version+8+0
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By dbminter - 18 May 2021 12:31 PM
May be closer than you, or anyone, thinks.
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By Reflecting Mirror - 18 May 2021 3:07 PM
FYI to Macrium,
You have a typo in the New 'Existing Backups' view stating "...navigate to individual folders where backups are stored and edit the comment field in exiting backups." instead of existing backups.
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By dbminter - 18 May 2021 3:19 PM
@Nick
I don't know who to address directly, so I nudged Nick about the above typo referenced in the previous post. Surely, he can take care of it or direct it to whoever should.
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By Froggie - 18 May 2021 3:59 PM
It's on the front page of the website NOW!!!
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By dbminter - 18 May 2021 4:15 PM
So it is! Congrats, everyone! It's out in the wild now. I told you was probably coming sooner than you thought. I was told in an e-mail a day ago it was planned for release in about 24 hours.
My thanks to the Reflect team and the other beta testers we all worked on the software with! It was nice to get back to beta testing software again. ImgBurn, the other software I beta test, hadn't had a new beta since 3 years ago. So, I've had little to do on the beta testing front until I was invited in to help participate in the beta.
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By jphughan - 18 May 2021 4:21 PM
I'll be taking bets on how long it will be before Keith creates the first in a series of "When will Reflect V9 be released?" threads 
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By dbminter - 18 May 2021 5:09 PM
"Version 9 will be released soon. In a few years." LOL
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By backuper - 18 May 2021 7:36 PM
Is there a good overview about the changes? The front page https://www.macrium.com/reflect8 is quite brief about things like Intra daily backups.
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By jphughan - 18 May 2021 7:39 PM
+x
There's an entire knowledgebase about the new features here, with most items containing a link to pages specifically about that item.
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By backuper - 18 May 2021 7:43 PM
Thanks
edit:
After checking it, it's exactely what I was looking for. I like the documentation with Macrium. It's so well made.
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By Merlin - 18 May 2021 7:52 PM
Without writing a textbook, can someone tell me the benefit of having/using a virtual machine, since Version 8 includes it?
I know that if you are testing new software and you don't want to install it on a production system, it's safer to use a VM, basically in a sandbox.
You could already mount an image as a new drive letter to restore any files you wanted to.
So what's the benefit?
As an extension, another question. On a server, what's the benefit of running a VM and connecting to that with work systems, as opposed to just connecting to the system without the VM?
Wouldn't that use more resources/RAM, slowing things down?
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By jphughan - 18 May 2021 7:59 PM
+xWithout writing a textbook, can someone tell me the benefit of having/using a virtual machine, since Version 8 includes it? I know that if you are testing new software and you don't want to install it on a production system, it's safer to use a VM, basically in a sandbox. You could already mount an image as a new drive letter to restore any files you wanted to. So what's the benefit? As an extension, another question. On a server, what's the benefit of running a VM and connecting to that with work systems, as opposed to just connecting to the system without the VM? Wouldn't that use more resources/RAM, slowing things down?
The VM functionality (called viBoot) was introduced in V7. The new part for V8 is that you can optionally use VirtualBox instead of Hyper-V. But Reflect/viBoot doesn't "include" a VM, nor is viBoot really about using VMs for general purposes. viBoot allows you to boot a Reflect image backup that you already have as a VM, even if that backup came from a physical system. So let's say you have an image backup of an old system that no longer exists. Yes if you just need to grab some files out of that backup, you can just mount it. But what if you need to run an application that was installed on that old system that you don't have anymore, perhaps to generate a data export? Or in an enterprise scenario, let's say you've been making image backups of a physical server and it dies, and replacement parts will take a while to arrive. You can start the latest backup of that server as a VM on some other server in order to keep that dead server running on your network even though its original hardware is down. Yes it will likely be slower, but it will probably be far better than having the system completely down. And once you're able to replace the original hardware, you can make a new Reflect backup of the CURRENT state of that VM you were running during that gap, and restore that new backup onto the replacement hardware.
The question of whether you want to use VMs for whatever work you're doing is entirely separate from what Reflect offers with viBoot.
As for the server use case, sometimes you want to keep applications or server roles isolated from each other, possibly for security reasons or compatibility requirements, but you might still want to consolidate your physical hardware footprint to a single server, or perhaps a cluster of some sort. Having multiple VMs all running on shared hardware allows you to do that. It also allows you to shut down or restart a VM that might be hosting one application without taking down every other application as would be the case if you installed everything into a single Windows environment. But this again has nothing to do with viBoot.
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By Merlin - 18 May 2021 8:06 PM
+x+xWithout writing a textbook, can someone tell me the benefit of having/using a virtual machine, since Version 8 includes it? I know that if you are testing new software and you don't want to install it on a production system, it's safer to use a VM, basically in a sandbox. You could already mount an image as a new drive letter to restore any files you wanted to. So what's the benefit? As an extension, another question. On a server, what's the benefit of running a VM and connecting to that with work systems, as opposed to just connecting to the system without the VM? Wouldn't that use more resources/RAM, slowing things down? The VM functionality (viBoot) was introduced in V7. The new part for V8 is that you can optionally use VirtualBox instead of Hyper-V. But the feature isn't about using VMs in general. The feature Reflect adds is the ability to boot a Reflect image backup as a VM. So let's say you have an image backup of a system that no longer exists. Yes if you just need to grab some files out of that backup, you can just mount it. But what if you need to run an application that was installed on that old system, perhaps to generate a data export? Or in an enterprise scenario, let's say you've been making image backups of a physical server and it dies, and replacement parts will take a while to arrive. You can start the backups of that server as a VM on some other server in order to keep that server running on your network even though the original hardware is down. Yes it will likely be slower, but it will probably be far better than nothing. And once you're able to replace the original hardware, you can make a new Reflect backup of the CURRENT state of that VM you were running during that gap, and restore that new backup onto the replacement hardware. The question of whether you want to use VMs for whatever work you're doing is entirely separate from what Reflect offers with viBoot. As for the server use case, sometimes you want to keep applications or server roles isolated from each other, possibly for security reasons or compatibility requirements, but you might still want to consolidate your physical hardware footprint to a single server, or perhaps a cluster of some sort. Having multiple VMs all running on shared hardware allows you to do that. It also means of course allow you to shut down or restart a VM that might be hosting one application without taking down every other application as would be the case if you installed everything into a single Windows environment. But this again has nothing to do with viBoot.
Thanks JP
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By max2 - 18 May 2021 8:41 PM
Is it worth upgrading right now?
How long is the 50% discount until ?
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By jphughan - 18 May 2021 9:02 PM
+xIs it worth upgrading right now? How long is the 50% discount until ?
If memory serves, the 50% discount is always available for people upgrading from the previous major release. But you can always buy the upgrade now and wait until later to start using it if you want to wait a while.
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By max2 - 18 May 2021 9:11 PM
+x+xIs it worth upgrading right now? How long is the 50% discount until ? If memory serves, the 50% discount is always available for people upgrading from the previous major release. But you can always buy the upgrade now and wait until later to start using it if you want to wait a while.
Thanks!
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By pokeefe - 18 May 2021 9:13 PM
+xIt's on the front page of the website NOW!!!
I'm new enough to Macrium Reflect to have never gone through a version upgrade. Maybe everybody but me knows the process, but in case there are others in the same boat, here's how to obtain a reduced price upgrade. (There may be other, simpler ways.)
- Log into your Macrium account
- In the Products tab select License Upgrade
- Under the description of the Macrium Reflect Status Wizard click "Click here to begin"
- Enter your "Licensee Email Address" and a License Key
(Any license key of a multi-key set will do ... I think) - Click "Lookup my License Keys"
- On the Reflect License Renewal display click "Continue for a xx% discount"
(Mine says 50%.)
I'm a little puzzled by the license status after the upgrade. I originally purchased a v7 4 PC license set and specified one of those license numbers in step 4 above. My license status display now shows 4 v8 licenses: 3 of the old license numbers and 1 new one. The license number I specified in the ordering process has been replaced. I have no idea what to expect during initialization when I actually install the software.
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By pokeefe - 18 May 2021 9:23 PM
+x+xIs it worth upgrading right now? How long is the 50% discount until ? If memory serves, the 50% discount is always available for people upgrading from the previous major release. But you can always buy the upgrade now and wait until later to start using it if you want to wait a while.
The 1 year Home Essentials support starts from the order date. I suppose it might be slightly beneficial to wait until the previous support expires if it is still active.
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By Homer712 - 18 May 2021 9:52 PM
For those of us who love to jump right in (although with Macrium Reflect this has never really been a risk) is there somewhere to download a V8 manual to step us through the upgrade process?
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By jphughan - 18 May 2021 10:03 PM
+xThe 1 year Home Essentials support starts from the order date. I suppose it might be slightly beneficial to wait until the previous support expires if it is still active.
Fair point, forgot about that.
+xFor those of us who love to jump right in (although with Macrium Reflect this has never really been a risk) is there somewhere to download a V8 manual to step us through the upgrade process?
Just install V8 over your existing installation. Everything should carry over just fine.
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By Homer712 - 18 May 2021 10:12 PM
Last question and I'm jumping in . . . how soon do we think there will there be a separate V8 forum?
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By dbminter - 18 May 2021 10:14 PM
That's a good question. It's been so long since the last version, I forget how long it was before the forum had a v7 section. I would think it won't be long.
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By Jamil - 18 May 2021 11:07 PM
How long before updates to Reflect 7 stop? I understand the need to support the product and all, but if it ain't broke I would rather not upgrade.
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By Merlin - 18 May 2021 11:13 PM
+xHow long before updates to Reflect 7 stop? I understand the need to support the product and all, but if it ain't broke I would rather not upgrade.
They'll probably update with bug fixes for a while, if they find any.
They typically announce end of life.
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By Froggie - 18 May 2021 11:23 PM
+xHow long before updates to Reflect 7 stop? I understand the need to support the product and all, but if it ain't broke I would rather not upgrade.
The way they work is... if they find an issue (in v6, 7 or 8... especially in v8) that affects previous releases or current releases, they'll go back and issue updates accordingly in each of the releases...
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By jphughan - 19 May 2021 3:19 AM
+xHow long before updates to Reflect 7 stop? I understand the need to support the product and all, but if it ain't broke I would rather not upgrade.
Historically, a major release of Reflect has been supported, in terms of tech support and updates, for one year after the next major release. So you should have at least a year left, unless Macrium changes their policy. But as an example of Macrium fixing it even when it's broke long afterward, Windows 10 1903 broke V6, and rather than Macrium telling customers that it was Microsoft's fault and that Reflect customers would either need to upgrade Reflect or refrain from upgrading Windows if they wanted to keep using Reflect, they instead released an update for V6 even though it was already more than a year past its end-of-support date by that point.
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By laszlo1 - 19 May 2021 4:03 AM
I would like a larger font size, because even at 175 DPI the font size is very small. I can hardly see it.
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By jphughan - 19 May 2021 5:14 AM
^ Is this new behavior for you on V8? The text isn’t any smaller than V7 for me, which I can tell because I can have V8 open on my system and also have a Remote Desktop window open to another system that has V7 installed directly beside it.
Also, what OS are you running? And I figure you mean 175% scaling rather than 175 DPI?
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By laszlo1 - 19 May 2021 12:08 PM
+x^ Is this new behavior for you on V8? The text isn’t any smaller than V7 for me, which I can tell because I can have V8 open on my system and also have a Remote Desktop window open to another system that has V7 installed directly beside it. Also, what OS are you running? And I figure you mean 175% scaling rather than 175 DPI?
It was also small on the V7. I don't have good eyesight and would like the font size to be adjustable on the V8.
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By Nick - 19 May 2021 12:16 PM
+xI would like a larger font size, because even at 175 DPI the font size is very small. I can hardly see it.
Thanks for the comment. We're looking at adding an option in Reflect to choose the font point size, and we hope to have this available for the next update. At this stage we can't tell you when this will be, but it won't be a very long wait.
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By kado897 - 19 May 2021 1:03 PM
Excellent.
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By alQamar - 19 May 2021 1:31 PM
+x+xIt's on the front page of the website NOW!!! I'm new enough to Macrium Reflect to have never gone through a version upgrade. Maybe everybody but me knows the process, but in case there are others in the same boat, here's how to obtain a reduced price upgrade. (There may be other, simpler ways.) - Log into your Macrium account
- In the Products tab select License Upgrade
- Under the description of the Macrium Reflect Status Wizard click "Click here to begin"
- Enter your "Licensee Email Address" and a License Key
(Any license key of a multi-key set will do ... I think) - Click "Lookup my License Keys"
- On the Reflect License Renewal display click "Continue for a xx% discount"
(Mine says 50%.)
I'm a little puzzled by the license status after the upgrade. I originally purchased a v7 4 PC license set and specified one of those license numbers in step 4 above. My license status display now shows 4 v8 licenses: 3 of the old license numbers and 1 new one. The license number I specified in the ordering process has been replaced. I have no idea what to expect during initialization when I actually install the software.
Hi Patrick,
there is a different way but very similar. Open MR7 it will notify you about the new version.
This opens this page
https://www.macrium.com/upgrade-renewal-wizard
in the wizard enter your registered email and your key or (cleverbridge) order number. I prefer the order number.
the wizard will thankfully show all purchases that are bind to this email adress. So I am able to pick up to 3 packs for upgrade but you can select or deselect them in the wizard if you don't want to upgrade all.
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By phrab - 19 May 2021 2:57 PM
Will Macrium Reflect 8 work in Windows XP Pro (SP-3)?
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By jphughan - 19 May 2021 3:01 PM
The System Requirements page of the Reflect V8 KB section, direct link here, indicates that the minimum OS is still only XP SP3 or Server 2003. So if that is accurate, then it seems so.
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By dbminter - 19 May 2021 3:18 PM
Didn't XP need to be some kind of patched for non signed installations? I admit that's over my head, but I thought there was some kind of limitation with v8 and older Windows needing some kind of patches for proper digital signatures for the installation. Maybe it's in SP3; I don't know.
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By phrab - 19 May 2021 3:42 PM
+xThe System Requirements page of the Reflect V8 KB section, direct link here, indicates that the minimum OS is still only XP SP3 or Server 2003. So if that is accurate, then it seems so.
Thank you! I will be upgrading then.
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By laszlo1 - 19 May 2021 3:45 PM
+x+xI would like a larger font size, because even at 175 DPI the font size is very small. I can hardly see it. Thanks for the comment. We're looking at adding an option in Reflect to choose the font point size, and we hope to have this available for the next update. At this stage we can't tell you when this will be, but it won't be a very long wait.
Thank you for your reply, I look forward to it!
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By phrab - 19 May 2021 3:48 PM
+xDidn't XP need to be some kind of patched for non signed installations? I admit that's over my head, but I thought there was some kind of limitation with v8 and older Windows needing some kind of patches for proper digital signatures for the installation. Maybe it's in SP3; I don't know.
Not sure what happened initially. When I installed Reflect on my XP machine in 2017, it worked fine. One update (7.2.4859) caused problems, but when I contacted support, they immediately sent me a fix.
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By jphughan - 19 May 2021 3:53 PM
+xDidn't XP need to be some kind of patched for non signed installations? I admit that's over my head, but I thought there was some kind of limitation with v8 and older Windows needing some kind of patches for proper digital signatures for the installation. Maybe it's in SP3; I don't know.
Ah yes, there was some issue about drivers with signatures that use the newer SHA256 algorithm or something. I now remember some comment along those lines during the beta. In that case the System Requirements KB may be incorrect, or perhaps that issue was worked around.
@phrab You may want to download a V8 trial and make sure it installs before upgrading, just to be safe.
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By phrab - 19 May 2021 4:27 PM
+x+xDidn't XP need to be some kind of patched for non signed installations? I admit that's over my head, but I thought there was some kind of limitation with v8 and older Windows needing some kind of patches for proper digital signatures for the installation. Maybe it's in SP3; I don't know. Ah yes, there was some issue about drivers with signatures that use the newer SHA256 algorithm or something. I now remember some comment along those lines during the beta. In that case the System Requirements KB may be incorrect, or perhaps that issue was worked around. @phrab You may want to download a V8 trial and make sure it installs before upgrading, just to be safe.
Thank you. Great idea. I actually intend to order 3 of them (Win10, XP, & a friend), but will wait a few weeks.
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By jphughan - 19 May 2021 11:12 PM
@phrab Ok it's official. The FAQ page here addresses compatibility. It turns out that due to code signing algorithm deprecations, Vista 64-bit and Server 2008 64-bit are no longer supported, but the 32-bit versions of those two OSes and the even older XP both work because because they don't perform code signature checks the first place.
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By dbminter - 19 May 2021 11:39 PM
That's right! I remember now that you said it. It was just the 64 bit versions of Vista; I had forgotten it also affected Server 2008. And that the 32 bit versions were unaffected.
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By CBA - 20 May 2021 10:41 AM
+xThanks for the comment. We're looking at adding an option in Reflect to choose the font point size, and we hope to have this available for the next update. At this stage we can't tell you when this will be, but it won't be a very long wait.
Hi Nick, working my way up from v5-v6-v7 I just purchased the 4-Pack Home upgrade, but I'll wait to install v8 until the font size option is available. You added various Dark Mode Themes. How about having a Classic Theme too using the v7 type UI icons? The v8 UI icons are pretty bland and boring imho.
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By refl_sb - 21 May 2021 11:03 PM
+x+xI would like a larger font size, because even at 175 DPI the font size is very small. I can hardly see it. Thanks for the comment. We're looking at adding an option in Reflect to choose the font point size, and we hope to have this available for the next update. At this stage we can't tell you when this will be, but it won't be a very long wait. Same problem. Looks like a 6pt font. Have same problem in V7.nn on different machine. Running 1920x1080 display with a custom scale of 115%. This update is sorely needed.
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By alQamar - 22 May 2021 3:14 PM
it would be great if this could be moved to the new MR 8 forum.
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By jphughan - 22 May 2021 11:45 PM
Just out of curiosity, could somebody who feels the V8 font is too small post a screenshot of a specific example, especially if they feel this is different from V7? I was involved in the V8 beta, which I used on a system where I switched between 100% and 125% scaling based on the display(s) that were available at any given time, and I didn't notice a change in font sizes from V7 to V8. And yet suddenly fonts are a hot topic on this forum.
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By pokeefe - 23 May 2021 2:22 AM
+xJust out of curiosity, could somebody who feels the V8 font is too small post a screenshot of a specific example, ... I'm not one of those that commented on the font, but I can sort of see what they mean. I brought up a Remote Desktop session of a PC running Reflect v8 overlaying a local Reflect v7.
The v7 font seems to be a very small amount larger, bolder, and, for me, just a bit easier to read. I think the difference is slight but noticeable.
And here's a side by side capture of the list of logs.
Here I think v8 is slightly easier to read (although the filter specification takes up an unfortunate amount of screen space).
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By jphughan - 23 May 2021 2:31 AM
I did the same side-by-side (even the same way by RDPing into another system, in fact!) and I didn’t notice anything significant, but maybe as you say even a small difference in size, bold, and/or typeface may be enough to trigger some sort of threshold. Regarding the log filter UI, I suppose moving the Backup Definition dropdown over to the right “column” might allow it to take up less vertical space, but I don’t mind it. I’m still able to see a large quantity of logs, and it’s definitely a huge improvement over the Logs UI in V7 in my book. Not being forced to expand different nodes based on backup type, having immediate access to job logs rather than having to expand a date node, being able to filter them, etc. are all things I like.
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By kado897 - 23 May 2021 5:55 AM
We have been struggling with the font size for years. It is not just a V8 problem. although that seems to have made it worse. Maybe the V8 font is a tad smaller or maybe familiarity with the V7 layout makes the difference. It's not just MR either, although MR is a poor example. UI's get developed by young people with 20:20 vision. It took a long time for for MS to get the message and allow text size to be increased in W10 components, a contributing reason why so many people stuck with W7, There really is no excuse for making such a great piece of software unnecessarily difficult to use.
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By CBA - 23 May 2021 7:42 AM
+x Your side by side captures exemplify what happens when changes to the UI are made "not because they are needed" .. but for the sake of making changes. Improvements under the hood are one thing, but why "mess" with an already excellent UI in the process. As for screen space, the filtering function should be optional for those who use it. I know, a minor point, but what's wrong with Restore? That's normally where Existing Backups are found, right!? 
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By jphughan - 23 May 2021 1:37 PM
I think it made perfect sense to rename Restore to Existing Backups, because that UI allows you to do a great deal more with your backups than simply restore them, such as browsing, verifying, deleting, etc. It was even possible to create new Diff/Inc backups from the Restore area of V7. I remember multiple users pointing out that it was a bit odd to go to a tab called Restore to delete or create new backups.
As for the filters, I’m not arguing that a way to collapse the filter area wouldn’t be handy, but I personally haven’t thought to myself, “I sure wish I could see more log entries at a time here.” Maybe that’s because V8 even in its current form allows you to see far more logs in a given view than V7 did — and the filter capability allows you to make even better use of that list space by having it display only the logs you actually want to see.
I don’t think the changes were made just for the sake of making changes at all, beyond perhaps a certain level of refreshing the UI to keep it looking modern. But would you praise Microsoft for their restraint if Windows today still looked like Windows 95? If not, then hopefully you can acknowledge that sometimes UIs get refreshed because users overall expect things to remain….fresh. I was fine with V7’s UI, but I don’t see V8 as a “messed with” version of that UI. The new Existing Backups and Logs views are much more information-dense, intuitive, and easier to navigate in my view.
I’m not sure what happened with the fonts, but it seems like a fairly minor change that unexpectedly became an issue. More important is that Macrium has already committed to addressing it.
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By capair45 - 23 May 2021 1:55 PM
I, too, think the name change to Existing Backups was a good idea. I think it better defines what you'll find there rather than "Restore". Also, I am not troubled by the font size but that's just me.
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By CBA - 23 May 2021 3:06 PM
+x As I haven't installed v8 yet .. maybe we are cross talking a bit. Once upgraded, who knows, perhaps I'll like it all. But, back at the ranch, this is about backups and Reflect has (as mentioned...) saved my butt numerous times. It's the 1st software I install after a refresh/upgrade.
Update: I installed Reflect v8 on my ThinkCentre M920s (W10 Pro 21H1 512GB M2.SSD and 16GB). The upgrade was very smooth w/o any hiccups. But, after playing around for a while, I find the new "refreshed" UI menus/tabs and layout in general less intuitive than v7 and indeed not easier to navigate. Of course, imo.
Accordingly, I have decided to revert to v7 for now as this version does what I want it to do (and more) for my 4 computer home use. My C: drive is backed up in about 2.4 minutes (sans work files/data which I keep on a different drive). By the way, I have no regrets about paying for the v8 upgrade while staying on v7.
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By pokeefe - 23 May 2021 6:46 PM
+xjphughan - 23 May 2021 1:37 PM I think it made perfect sense to rename Restore to Existing Backups, because that UI allows you to do a great deal more with your backups than simply restore them, such as browsing, verifying, deleting, etc. It was even possible to create new Diff/Inc backups from the Restore area of V7. I remember multiple users pointing out that it was a bit odd to go to a tab called Restore to delete or create new backups.
I'm relatively new to Reflect and have been very reluctant to even touch the Restore tab; I didn't want to find myself in the midst of a restore process. I think changing the name to Existing Backups was a very good idea.
jphughan - 23 May 2021 1:37 PM
I don’t think the changes were made just for the sake of making changes at all, beyond perhaps a certain level of refreshing the UI to keep it looking modern.
On the other hand, I don't think keeping something looking modern (as opposed to improving functionality) is a good reason to make a change.
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By jphughan - 23 May 2021 11:22 PM
+xUpdate: I installed Reflect v8 on my ThinkCentre M920s (W10 Pro 21H1 512GB M2.SSD and 16GB). The upgrade was very smooth w/o any hiccups. But, after playing around for a while, I find the new "refreshed" UI menus/tabs and layout in general less intuitive than v7 and indeed not easier to navigate. Of course, imo. Accordingly, I have decided to revert to v7 for now as this version does what I want it to do (and more) for my 4 computer home use. My C: drive is backed up in about 2.4 minutes (sans work files/data which I keep on a different drive). By the way, I have no regrets about paying for the v8 upgrade while staying on v7.
That's entirely fair. But if you ever find yourself having some other reason to move up to V8, such as maintaining active support once V7's ends a year from now, or to use a new feature that might be introduced later as part of 8.1, etc., you may find that you prefer the new UI with a bit more time. It is often the case that redesigns that might be more intuitive to someone who has never seen the application before are nonetheless deemed unintuitive or a step backward to those who are already well versed in the "old way". One well-known example of this is with MS Office. In the 2000s when Microsoft conducted market research to find out what new features users wanted in the next release of Office, the top 10 requests were all features that already existed in the current version. Users simply weren't discovering them. So Microsoft set out to redesign the Office UI, which became what is now known as the Ribbon interface that first arrived in Office 2007. Hardcore Office users who were used to the interface from Office 2003 and older initially hated it, but it was well-received by new users. And returning to Reflect, one user in the V8 beta initially disliked the redesigned File & Folder source selection interface, but after a few weeks of working with it decided that it was in fact a nice improvement. I personally liked the new Existing Backups and Logs UIs as soon as I saw them in the beta and only had a few minor suggestions for improvements, which Macrium implemented. I find that Existing Backups makes available functionality much more apparent, allows me to more quickly filter and organize views (such as by selecting a specific folder to search, which wasn't quick to do in V7, or by switching between Backup Sets and Backup Files views) and perhaps most importantly allows me to see more backups in a given view than was ever possible in V7, and also more at-a-glance information about each backup. And with Logs, once again it's possible to see more logs in a list than before, and thanks to the filter UI, they're more likely to be the logs that I'm actually interested in seeing.
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By dbminter - 23 May 2021 11:27 PM
That F&F user in the beta testing would be me. I did initially have my misgivings about the new interface. I was so ingrained in the old way which had existed since, basically, when I was using Reflect with 4.x. After playing around with it for some time, I did find myself won over by it. It is a vast improvement and saves me a lot of time I was expending before with the old way.
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By phrab - 24 May 2021 1:52 AM
+x+xUpdate: I installed Reflect v8 on my ThinkCentre M920s (W10 Pro 21H1 512GB M2.SSD and 16GB). The upgrade was very smooth w/o any hiccups. But, after playing around for a while, I find the new "refreshed" UI menus/tabs and layout in general less intuitive than v7 and indeed not easier to navigate. Of course, imo. Accordingly, I have decided to revert to v7 for now as this version does what I want it to do (and more) for my 4 computer home use. My C: drive is backed up in about 2.4 minutes (sans work files/data which I keep on a different drive). By the way, I have no regrets about paying for the v8 upgrade while staying on v7. That's entirely fair. But if you ever find yourself having some other reason to move up to V8, such as maintaining active support once V7's ends a year from now, or to use a new feature that might be introduced later as part of 8.1, etc., you may find that you prefer the new UI with a bit more time. It is often the case that redesigns that might be more intuitive to someone who has never seen the application before are nonetheless deemed unintuitive or a step backward to those who are already well versed in the "old way". One well-known example of this is with MS Office. In the 2000s when Microsoft conducted market research to find out what new features users wanted in the next release of Office, the top 10 requests were all features that already existed in the current version. Users simply weren't discovering them. So Microsoft set out to redesign the Office UI, which became what is now known as the Ribbon interface that first arrived in Office 2007. Hardcore Office users who were used to the interface from Office 2003 and older initially hated it, but it was well-received by new users. And returning to Reflect, one user in the V8 beta initially disliked the redesigned File & Folder source selection interface, but after a few weeks of working with it decided that it was in fact a nice improvement. I personally liked the new Existing Backups and Logs UIs as soon as I saw them in the beta and only had a few minor suggestions for improvements, which Macrium implemented. I find that Existing Backups makes available functionality much more apparent, allows me to more quickly filter and organize views (such as by selecting a specific folder to search, which wasn't quick to do in V7, or by switching between Backup Sets and Backup Files views) and perhaps most importantly allows me to see more backups in a given view than was ever possible in V7, and also more at-a-glance information about each backup. And with Logs, once again it's possible to see more logs in a list than before, and thanks to the filter UI, they're more likely to be the logs that I'm actually interested in seeing.
I'm sure I can get used to the new UI in version 8. Sometimes changes are better...sometimes not. Backups are something that you can set & not use multiple times a day, so for most, it shouldn't take long to get used to it. MS Office is another thing. I still use Word 2003 because I don't like the ribbon. It made things much harder. I can accomplish most tasks with Word 2003 with just a few keystrokes, something that the ribbon took away.
By the way, I accidentally unsubscribed from this topic & don't know how to re subscribe.
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By pokeefe - 24 May 2021 2:03 AM
+xBy the way, I accidentally unsubscribed from this topic & don't know how to re subscribe. I'm sure there are other, more direct ways, but just give another reply and you'll be subscribed again. For some reason I unsubscribe from threads here every couple weeks. I think it's because the unsubscribe link in is more prominent than the view link in the notification emails.
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By phrab - 24 May 2021 2:05 AM
+x+xBy the way, I accidentally unsubscribed from this topic & don't know how to re subscribe. I'm sure there are other, more direct ways, but just give another reply and you'll be subscribed again. For some reason I unsubscribe from threads here every couple weeks. I think it's because the unsubscribe link in is more prominent than the view link in the notification emails.
Thanks, Patrick. That's what I did. Didn't see a way to do it from the "Control Panel".
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By CBA - 24 May 2021 7:12 AM
+x
Let's see what the future brings! I'm not stuck in the mud totally and I do like W10 after having removed 98% of the preinstalled apps and after running telemetry-privacy gadgets like ShutUp10 .. and after setting selected Group Policies to control WU et al.
On the other hand, as regards Office, my favorite remains 2003. But, I have settled on a "compromise" of sorts, Office 2010 (still being updated, in spite of being EOL .. no doubt because plenty large businesses still use it).
For the time being, I'm all okay using Reflect v7 .. for my specific needs.
Thanks for the feedback! Quite helpful.
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By dbminter - 24 May 2021 1:23 PM
+x+x+xUpdate: I installed Reflect v8 on my ThinkCentre M920s (W10 Pro 21H1 512GB M2.SSD and 16GB). The upgrade was very smooth w/o any hiccups. But, after playing around for a while, I find the new "refreshed" UI menus/tabs and layout in general less intuitive than v7 and indeed not easier to navigate. Of course, imo. Accordingly, I have decided to revert to v7 for now as this version does what I want it to do (and more) for my 4 computer home use. My C: drive is backed up in about 2.4 minutes (sans work files/data which I keep on a different drive). By the way, I have no regrets about paying for the v8 upgrade while staying on v7. That's entirely fair. But if you ever find yourself having some other reason to move up to V8, such as maintaining active support once V7's ends a year from now, or to use a new feature that might be introduced later as part of 8.1, etc., you may find that you prefer the new UI with a bit more time. It is often the case that redesigns that might be more intuitive to someone who has never seen the application before are nonetheless deemed unintuitive or a step backward to those who are already well versed in the "old way". One well-known example of this is with MS Office. In the 2000s when Microsoft conducted market research to find out what new features users wanted in the next release of Office, the top 10 requests were all features that already existed in the current version. Users simply weren't discovering them. So Microsoft set out to redesign the Office UI, which became what is now known as the Ribbon interface that first arrived in Office 2007. Hardcore Office users who were used to the interface from Office 2003 and older initially hated it, but it was well-received by new users. And returning to Reflect, one user in the V8 beta initially disliked the redesigned File & Folder source selection interface, but after a few weeks of working with it decided that it was in fact a nice improvement. I personally liked the new Existing Backups and Logs UIs as soon as I saw them in the beta and only had a few minor suggestions for improvements, which Macrium implemented. I find that Existing Backups makes available functionality much more apparent, allows me to more quickly filter and organize views (such as by selecting a specific folder to search, which wasn't quick to do in V7, or by switching between Backup Sets and Backup Files views) and perhaps most importantly allows me to see more backups in a given view than was ever possible in V7, and also more at-a-glance information about each backup. And with Logs, once again it's possible to see more logs in a list than before, and thanks to the filter UI, they're more likely to be the logs that I'm actually interested in seeing. I'm sure I can get used to the new UI in version 8. Sometimes changes are better...sometimes not. Backups are something that you can set & not use multiple times a day, so for most, it shouldn't take long to get used to it. MS Office is another thing. I still use Word 2003 because I don't like the ribbon. It made things much harder. I can accomplish most tasks with Word 2003 with just a few keystrokes, something that the ribbon took away. By the way, I accidentally unsubscribed from this topic & don't know how to re subscribe.
At the top of every page of a thread, on the far right side, there's a blue box with white text that says Options. There's a Subscribe option in that drop down list.
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By phrab - 24 May 2021 4:04 PM
Thank you!! I should have seen it.
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By dbminter - 24 May 2021 4:14 PM
No prob. We've all missed the obvious before. What's right in front of my face, even I.
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By [email protected] - 17 June 2021 3:56 PM
I am a long time user of Reflect and love the program. I'm on a Windows 7 machine that I am maintaining because of Windows Media Center functionality. I was about to update to V8 when I read the below about V8 compatibility with Windows 7:
Windows 7 64bit / Windows 2008 R2 Server 64 bit Reflect updates and installs will continue to be supported on this platform if the OS has been patched to include SHA-2 support.
Is there an easy way to determine if I my system has been patched to include SHA-2 support? I found the following from Microsoft:
Customers who run legacy OS versions (Windows 7 SP1, Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 and Windows Server 2008 SP2) are required to have SHA-2 code signing support installed on their devices to install updates released on or after July 2019. Any devices without SHA-2 support will not be able to install Windows updates on or after July 2019.
I have received Windows updates after 7/2019 and am still receiving occasional Windows security updates for Office products. I'm assuming that I'm good to go even though I couldn't find the specific update listed that installed SHA-2 support.
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By Froggie - 17 June 2021 4:01 PM
July 9, 2019
Required: Updates for legacy Windows versions will require that SHA-2 code signing support be installed. The support released in April and May (KB4493730 and KB4474419) will be required in order to continue to receive updates on these versions of Windows.
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By [email protected] - 17 June 2021 4:22 PM
Thanks Froggie. I wasn't specific enough in my note. I was aware of the 2 updates you mentioned but was unable to find them as installed updates on my machine. I'm just wondering if it is safe to make the logical leap that the updates are installed since I have been receiving Windows updates since the 7/2019 cutoff date. Thanks.
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By jphughan - 17 June 2021 4:28 PM
Yes, it is safe to make that logical leap. All Windows Updates are now and have for a while been signed using SHA-256, so if your Windows 7 environment did not support that algorithm, it would have been unable to verify the integrity of those updates and therefore would have refused to install them.
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By [email protected] - 17 June 2021 4:35 PM
Excellent. Thanks jphugan. I'll proceed with the upgrade to V8.
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By uit - 5 October 2021 2:07 PM
+x+xI would like a larger font size, because even at 175 DPI the font size is very small. I can hardly see it. Thanks for the comment. We're looking at adding an option in Reflect to choose the font point size, and we hope to have this available for the next update. At this stage we can't tell you when this will be, but it won't be a very long wait.
Yes, please increase the size of the font used for backup job details, like Operation X or X. It's just too darn small. The font size shouldn't be any smaller than the other Macrium program type fonts.
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