Macrium Support Forum

Missing System Tray icon

https://forum.macrium.com/Topic40830.aspx

By pokeefe - 21 October 2020 8:06 PM

On one of my computers I've lost the MR System Tray icon that normally appears when a background backup is running.  I assume I messed this up when playing around with notifications.  On three other computers the icon is present.  (Well, it's hidden - which I want - but appears in the hidden icon display.)   I don't know if is a Windows problem or Macrium Reflect problem, but I'd like to fix it if I can. 

I saw a posting somewhere suggesting I check a couple registry records.  As near as I could tell they look OK so I suspect I have a Windows problem, but I thought I'd check MR first.

BTW, I know that I can get to the background backup display by using Ctrl-Alt-M, but this computer is (of course) the one computer I access via Remote Desktop and that shortcut works only if have the RDT display in full screen mode (which I prefer not to use).
By jphughan - 21 October 2020 9:07 PM

For the "BTW" portion of your post about RDP, that's an RDP connection setting.  Click "Show Options" in the lower left corner (unless it already says Hide Options) and then go to the Local Resources tab.  Change the Keyboard setting to "On the remote computer".  But that will apply to ALL key combinations, so as noted in the RDP application interface, even Alt+Tab will be sent to the remote system rather than executed locally.  That's why the default is full screen. Smile
By dbminter - 21 October 2020 9:09 PM

So, you are saying this icon doesn't appear at all?  It's not in the Notification tray area or in the "hidden" Notification tray area with the up arrow on the left side of the Notification tray?


Did this just recently start with the 7.3 update?  If it is, are you using antivirus/spyware/firewall applications other than Windows Defender/Microsoft Firewall?  On my setup, I was no longer getting the dialog that displays before backups because ReflectUI was being blocked on system startup by ZoneAlarm.  After uninstalling ZA, it returned.


Though it probably won't help in this case, try disabling the Hourly check for updates in the Defaults for Update.  You can always enable it again if disabling it doesn't return your icon.  Disabling Hourly checks was a temporary solution until ZA was discovered to be the culprit.  However, as I said, it probably won't help in your case, but couldn't hurt to try it.
By pokeefe - 21 October 2020 9:29 PM

+x
dbminter - 21 October 2020 9:09 PM
So, you are saying this icon doesn't appear at all?  It's not in the Notification tray area or in the "hidden" Notification tray area with the up arrow on the left side of the Notification tray?


Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say.  No MR icon, either displayed or in the "hidden" list.   All other icons are appearing (either being normally displayed or in the hidden list) as they have in the past.

dbminter - 21 October 2020 9:09 PM
Did this just recently start with the 7.3 update?  If it is, are you using antivirus/spyware/firewall applications other than Windows Defender/Microsoft Firewall?  On my setup, I was no longer getting the dialog that displays before backups because ReflectUI was being blocked on system startup by ZoneAlarm.  After uninstalling ZA, it returned.

I did just install 7.3, but I'm (almost) certain the icon was missing before that.  I did just change security packages on that computer.  (It's my "test" PC.)  I switched from Kaspersky Internet Security (which is causing no trouble on my other 3 computers) to a test of Bitdefender Total Security.  I'll switch back and see if that fixes anything, but I'm pretty sure the icon was missing before I started messing around with new security packages.  Also, my other icons - 3 displayed, 5 hidden - are fine.
+x

dbminter - 21 October 2020 9:09 PM
Though it probably won't help in this case, try disabling the Hourly check for updates in the Defaults for Update.  You can always enable it again if disabling it doesn't return your icon.  Disabling Hourly checks was a temporary solution until ZA was discovered to be the culprit.  However, as I said, it probably won't help in your case, but couldn't hurt to try it.

I already had hourly checks disabled.  I had daily checks enabled, but I've disabled that, too.  (I sort of doubt that's going to help.

Sorry to mess up the formatting above.  I can't figure out how to end and restart a quote in this forum.

By pokeefe - 22 October 2020 3:23 AM

dbminter - 21 October 2020 9:09 PM

Did this just recently start with the 7.3 update?  If it is, are you using antivirus/spyware/firewall applications other than Windows Defender/Microsoft Firewall?  On my setup, I was no longer getting the dialog that displays before backups because ReflectUI was being blocked on system startup by ZoneAlarm.  After uninstalling ZA, it returned..

I'm amazed - that was it!  Or at least uninstalling Bitdefender and reinstalling Kaspersky made the icon reappear.  I don't have any way of knowing (short of reinstalling Bitdefender) if it really was a problem with Bitdefender itself, or if it was just the process of uninstalling and reinstalling a security package that did it.  Whichever, it worked.  Thank you!
By dbminter - 22 October 2020 12:24 PM

I was surprised, too.  Smile  When Nick told me it was my ZoneAlarm installation, I couldn't see why.  Version 7.2.x didn't have a conflict with ZA, but version 7.3.x did.  I also didn't believe it was ZA causing my problems because I had "tested" it by disabling its resident portion from the Notification tray.  So, my next step was to try uninstalling ZA and that worked.


ZA also had a problem with Windows 10 20H2.  On restart of Windows, it caused explorer.exe to "crash."  Uninstalling ZA made that problem go away, too.
By capair45 - 22 October 2020 11:35 PM

There are several posts about anti-virus conflicting with Reflect.  I used Kaspersky for at least 10 years and, for the most part, all was good.  Then I started having issues with MR updates and it was suggested I remove KIS and rely on Windows Defender.  That suggestion has worked for me.  Hopefully, Kaspersky will continue to provide good protection for you (I used a several of them and KIS was the best). 
By pokeefe - 22 October 2020 11:53 PM

capair45 - 22 October 2020 11:35 PM
There are several posts about anti-virus conflicting with Reflect.  I used Kaspersky for at least 10 years and, for the most part, all was good.  Then I started having issues with MR updates and it was suggested I remove KIS and rely on Windows Defender.  That suggestion has worked for me.  Hopefully, Kaspersky will continue to provide good protection for you (I used a several of them and KIS was the best). 

I, too, have used KIS for about 10 years and have been very satisfied with it.  But Kaspersky has just implemented an automatic upgrade policy where the user has no control over when the upgrade happens.  When one of my commputers got upgraded from KIS 20 to 21 on the first reboot after installing Win 10 2004 I got a bit upset and started looking for alternatives.  (Hence my trying Bitdefender.) 
By capair45 - 23 October 2020 12:00 AM

Patrick O'Keefe - 22 October 2020 11:53 PM
capair45 - 22 October 2020 11:35 PM
There are several posts about anti-virus conflicting with Reflect.  I used Kaspersky for at least 10 years and, for the most part, all was good.  Then I started having issues with MR updates and it was suggested I remove KIS and rely on Windows Defender.  That suggestion has worked for me.  Hopefully, Kaspersky will continue to provide good protection for you (I used a several of them and KIS was the best). 

I, too, have used KIS for about 10 years and have been very satisfied with it.  But Kaspersky has just implemented an automatic upgrade policy where the user has no control over when the upgrade happens.  When one of my commputers got upgraded from KIS 20 to 21 on the first reboot after installing Win 10 2004 I got a bit upset and started looking for alternatives.  (Hence my trying Bitdefender.) 

Used that too but found it didn't give me the options KIS did.  So far Windows Defender, MBAM, and safe surfing is working.  I think the key is being careful and understanding where the risks lie.  Knowing that, Windows Defender may be all that's needed.
By pokeefe - 24 October 2020 2:41 AM

capair45 - 22 October 2020 11:35 PM
There are several posts about anti-virus conflicting with Reflect.

Maybe I'll jump on those threads.  My success didn't last very long - the icon has disappeared again.

I actually doubt the problem is completely related to interactions between MR and anti-virus products.  I've got the same security software on 4 computers but have this problem on only one.  I think I have something messed up in Windows.
By pokeefe - 24 October 2020 7:47 PM

capair45 - 22 October 2020 11:35 PM
There are several posts about anti-virus conflicting with Reflect.

Could you point me to those threads?  I was reading one of them a couple days ago but now I cannot find it.  I'd like to better understand how the anti-virus products are interacting with Reflect to cause this problem.  I suspect my problem really has nothing directly to do with either Reflect of anti-virus software, but is corrupted data in Windows.

It occurrs to me that I have never done a clean install of Windows on this computer since I got it in 2010.  I've replaced just about every piece of hardware (including getting a new motherboard and CPU) but have always done upgrade-in-place installations (Win7 Home, Wiin7 Pro , and every version of Win 10 since 1507).  Ans since I now use it as  test PC, I've installed and uninstalled tons of software.   I should probably bite the bullet and do a clean reinstall of Windows before trying to debug this icon problem.


By capair45 - 24 October 2020 8:46 PM

Here are a few I can find concerning Kaspersky.
https://forum.macrium.com/34102/RE-SOLVED-Failed-to-Create-Volume-Snapshot-0x8004230f#34265

https://forum.macrium.com/14457/RE-After-updating-to-702187-split-backup-Verifies-fail-and-then-succeed-on-each-part?PageIndex=2#14511

https://forum.macrium.com/34033/RE-Restore-Works-Like-a-Charm#34037

https://forum.macrium.com/35140/RE-Test-email-notifications-fails-with-error-code-55?PageIndex=2#35171

https://forum.macrium.com/14416/Suspend-PC-after-incremental-backup#14470

Searching for these threads I found that other AV products also do not play well with Reflect.  The MR Knowledge Base has a section on this.  I believe Kaspersky is a top-notch product and was disappointed to have to remove it.  But, IMO, I needed Reflect far more that I needed Kaspersky.  There were suggestions on the forum from very knowledgeable folks who had found WD to be reliable so I made the move.

I had all the exclusions for MR implanted into KIS, but still occasionally had issues.  I've had no issues with WD and Reflect.
By pokeefe - 24 October 2020 9:44 PM

Hmm.  I don't think any of those threads were the one  found (and lost), but I'll check again.  I think the one I saw did not specifically mention Kaspersky; it was more about anti-virus products in general, and was specifically related to either notifications or the system try icon not showing up.

At this point I think I will do the clear reinstall of Windows that I mentioned (which probably won't happen for a week or two), and, if the problem with the icon still exists, I'll open a problem ticket.  I'm afraid I can't consider "change your anti-virus software" an acceptable solution to this kind of problem - not for the top-tier security products.   The fact that I have no problem on 3 of my 4 computers leads me to believe this is not an unsolvable problem.  (And if it is unsolvable I'll live without the icon rather than change security products.) 
By dbminter - 27 October 2020 3:03 PM

@pokeefe


Is the icon actually "missing?"  What I mean by this, is there an empty space in the Notification area where the icon "appears" but it has no icon when the backup is running?  I encountered that today.  My backup was running, and there was an empty space in the Notification area where the icon should have been, but no icon.  Plus, hovering the mouse over the icon did not produce the usual % completed thus far progress indication it usually does.
By pokeefe - 27 October 2020 5:56 PM

Today the icon is back so it will be a bit difficult to answer your question.Crazy

On my other computers the icon is hidden so it would appear only in the "Show hidden icons" list. Since the list appears as a rectangular array, there's no way to tell if the last spot is actually  empty or an undisplayable icon.  That's also true for the left-most icon of the displayable System Tray icons.

I'm going to launch into my clean reinstall of Windows on this test computer (followed by reinstallation of a bunch of programs).  I'll see how things are after that.  "After that" will take a few days, I suspect.)
By dbminter - 27 October 2020 6:06 PM

One thing you might want to try as a test.  Enable the show all icons options in the Windows configuration.  I forget where it is but there's an arcane Windows setting where you can disable the hidden Notification area and display all icons all the time in the Notification area.  With the option enabled to always show all icons in the Notification area, you can test to see if the backup icon appears then.  You can always change the setting back later to "hide" the other icons.
By pokeefe - 27 October 2020 6:25 PM

I'll tuck that suggestion away for later consideration, but today the backup icon appears (unhidden) when the backup runs so I've got no real way to test what you suggested.  Over the past few days the icon has be present or missing (during backups) seemingly randomly.  I strongly suspect the problem does not lie with either Reflect or security software at this point.  I don't know if the System Tray displays are tied to the notification database, but I've had some other peculiarities that make me think the database is corrupt.  I think the clean reinstall of Windows is called for at this point.  If nothing else, it will give me a more stable starting point for further diagnosis.

By dbminter - 27 October 2020 8:15 PM

@pokeefe


I don't wish to sound pedantic when I ask this, but you have tried restarting the PC, right?  I only ask because my scheduled backup icon problem that started today disappeared when I restarted the PC.
By pokeefe - 27 October 2020 8:49 PM

Many restarts, probably averaging about one a day, but I haven't kept track.
By dbminter - 27 October 2020 9:02 PM

That's enough times to test it.  I restart at least once a day, every day.  Usually around 11 AM.
By pokeefe - 28 October 2020 11:13 PM

Well, the clean install did not fix the problem.  The "backup in progress" icon still does always appear in the system tray.  I need to do a bit more diagnosis, but this is happening on the only computer that I access via Remote Desktop, and the icon did appear initially when I was using the PC's keyboard and display.

I don't consider it important enough to throw out my security software but I do find it frustrating.
By capair45 - 28 October 2020 11:25 PM

Patrick O'Keefe - 28 October 2020 11:13 PM
Well, the clean install did not fix the problem.  The "backup in progress" icon still does always appear in the system tray.  I need to do a bit more diagnosis, but this is happening on the only computer that I access via Remote Desktop, and the icon did appear initially when I was using the PC's keyboard and display.

I don't consider it important enough to throw out my security software but I do find it frustrating.

You might consider testing the ant-virus theory by uninstalling Kaspersky and running on Windows Defender for a few days,
By Nick - 28 October 2020 11:31 PM

Patrick O'Keefe - 21 October 2020 8:06 PM
On one of my computers I've lost the MR System Tray icon that normally appears when a background backup is running.  I assume I messed this up when playing around with notifications.  On three other computers the icon is present.  (Well, it's hidden - which I want - but appears in the hidden icon display.)   I don't know if is a Windows problem or Macrium Reflect problem, but I'd like to fix it if I can. 

I saw a posting somewhere suggesting I check a couple registry records.  As near as I could tell they look OK so I suspect I have a Windows problem, but I thought I'd check MR first.

BTW, I know that I can get to the background backup display by using Ctrl-Alt-M, but this computer is (of course) the one computer I access via Remote Desktop and that shortcut works only if have the RDT display in full screen mode (which I prefer not to use).

Thanks for posting.

The notifications missing when scheduled backups are running is a bug. We have identified the cause and it will be resolved in the next update. In the meantime, if you double click 'C:\Program Files\Macrium\Common\ReflectMonitor.exe' in Windows Explorer, at any time after logging in to Windows, it should resolve the problem. Apologies for the inconvenience.
By pokeefe - 28 October 2020 11:33 PM

@capair45: I might do that for diagnostic purposes, but I don't consider that an appropriate solution to the problem. 

@Nick: Thanks.  I'll do that.
By dbminter - 28 October 2020 11:44 PM

@Nick


Are notifications the same as a missing system tray/notification tray icon?  I thought Notifications were separate from the Notification tray icons.  However, you did use lower case notifications, so does that include the system tray icons?
By pokeefe - 29 October 2020 12:04 AM

I've read that "System" tray" is officially know as "Notification area" so I've assumed it was populated using some part of the Windows notification function, I've just been guessing.  I hope Nick will clear that up.  Postings on the web sure don't.
By dbminter - 29 October 2020 12:16 AM

That's one of the reasons why I asked for clarification.  There's conflicting definitions out there now.
By Nick - 29 October 2020 8:30 AM

Patrick O'Keefe - 29 October 2020 12:04 AM
I've read that "System" tray" is officially know as "Notification area" so I've assumed it was populated using some part of the Windows notification function, I've just been guessing.  I hope Nick will clear that up.  Postings on the web sure don't.

Thanks for posting.

'Popups' sent to tray icons appear in the 'Notifications' area.  If the tray icons aren't created then the notifications wont appear. ReflectMonitor creates the tray icons and passes the notifications to them. 
By pokeefe - 30 October 2020 5:03 PM

Nick - 29 October 2020 8:30 AM

'Popups' sent to tray icons appear in the 'Notifications' area.  If the tray icons aren't created then the notifications wont appear. ReflectMonitor creates the tray icons and passes the notifications to them. 

Thanks Nick.  This is way off topic and far beyond anything you need to do, but could you describe (just name) the types of notifications that Reflect uses when displaying information?  I'm trying to understand the Windows doc, and am having great trouble.  (For example, I have no idea what a "toast" notification is, and the Windows doc assumes everybody does.)  The API call that tells Windows to display an icon in the system tray must be different from the API call that displays a popup saying a backup has started.
By pokeefe - 6 November 2020 9:43 PM

Nick - 28 October 2020 11:31 PM

The notifications missing when scheduled backups are running is a bug. We have identified the cause and it will be resolved in the next update. ...

I installed MR v7.3.5321 and thought that fixed the problem.  The icons appeared for the first couple backups - maybe even the first couple days.  But now the icon is gone again.  Maybe I'll open a problem ticket.
By capair45 - 10 November 2020 7:00 PM

Patrick O'Keefe - 30 October 2020 5:03 PM
Nick - 29 October 2020 8:30 AM

'Popups' sent to tray icons appear in the 'Notifications' area.  If the tray icons aren't created then the notifications wont appear. ReflectMonitor creates the tray icons and passes the notifications to them. 

 "For example, I have no idea what a "toast" notification is"

A toast notification is a message box that slides in at the bottom-right of the screen and then slides quickly out again.  It is only displayed for a few seconds and is rectangular in shape.
By pokeefe - 10 November 2020 7:39 PM

capair45 - 10 November 2020 7:00 PM

A toast notification is a message box that slides in at the bottom-right of the screen and then slides quickly out again.  It is only displayed for a few seconds and is rectangular in shape.

Thank you.  That notification happens.  It's just the "Backup-in-progress" icon in the System Tray that is missing.  And for the last couple days when the backup is manually started from the Scheduled Backups tab.  Since v7.3.5321 the problem may just happen for backups that were missed because computer was asleep.  (All backups on this computer are scheduled to run when the computer is asleep because the computer is always asleep unless I have something I want to test.  And all backups request that the PC not wake up to run a scheduled backup.)
By pokeefe - 12 November 2020 10:18 PM

I've just reproduced this problem on a computer that had not previously displayed the problem (and have updated my problem ticket with this information.
  1. Start with the computer in a "Locked" state.
  2.   Connect to the computer using Remote Desktop.
  3.   Manually start a scheduled backup. The icon appears in System Tray.
  4.   Disconnect the Remote Desktop connection. This puts the computer in a Locked state but the backup runs to completion.
  5.   Wait for the computer to enter Sleep state.
  6.   Wake the computer with "Wake on Lan" processing and connect with Remote Desktop again.
  7.   Manually start another backup. This time the icon is not displayed.
  8.   Disconnect Remote Desktop and log in locally.
  9.   Start another backup. The icon is still not displayed.
  10.   Reboot and start another backup. The icon is displayed.
By pokeefe - 7 April 2021 4:50 PM

Another update on a long dormant thread:

I have 2 desktop computers: a "production" PC which I actively use for 12-16 hours a day, and a "test" PC that I almost exclusively access with Remote Desktop.  The test PC is usually asleep or running disconnected.  I wake it up every couple days to let backups start (I do not let the scheduled backups wake the PC.) but usually immediately disconnect Remote Desktop connection.

A couple weeks ago I swapped the 2 PCs.  The disappearing icon problem moved, too.  It had been on the old test PC; it is now on the new test PC.  I strongly suspect this problem is associated with the switching between attended and unattended modes of operation while the backup is running. 

I don't know enough about Windows internals to know if there is a difference between running disconnected and running locked, but I think I will try locking my (new) production PC while a backup is running and seeing if that make the problem reappear.


By dbminter - 7 April 2021 5:05 PM

This nagging issue may be addressed by the time v8 is released.
By Beardy - 8 April 2021 1:17 AM

I only see the issue of missing tray icon when my machine has previously been sleeping/hibernated (extremely rare), or if explorer crashed & I restarted it manually without rebooting (almost as rare), a reboot cures it until the next sleep/hibernate/explorer crash.

I also have another program with a tray icon, which also runs elevated privileges, & also shows the same behaviour, this leads me to suspect it's a Windows bug which only shows with elevated processes not hooking the tray properly after such an event.

In the case of the other program restarting it reinstates the icon, since my machine is currently in a post-explorer-crash/restart state and the icon is thus missing, I've just tried restarting the Macrium service.

That restored the icon at the next scheduled backup.

Assuming you can do so, then restarting the service after explorer crashes or sleep/hibernate events & before any backup runs may be a viable workaround.
I see no reason why anyone using Windows task scheduler couldn't script restarting the service before their backup runs, I've no idea what would happen using Macrium's scheduler though, would restarting the service restart the scheduler and cancel the job? No idea since I don't use it. 

By pokeefe - 8 April 2021 2:05 AM

+x
Beardy - 8 April 2021 1:17 AM

I only see the issue of missing tray icon when my machine has previously been sleeping/hibernated (extremely rare), or if explorer crashed & I restarted it manually without rebooting (almost as rare), a reboot cures it until the next sleep/hibernate/explorer crash.


Interesting.  For me, sleeping is not sufficient to provoke the problem.  (I don't know about hibernation.)  I regularly put my "production" PC to sleep but the icon is still displayed during backups following waking up.  In my case the problem seems to be related to the icon needing to be displayed when the PC is running in a disconnected/unattended state.

Beardy - 8 April 2021 1:17 AM
...
I've just tried restarting the Macrium service.

That restored the icon at the next scheduled backup.

Assuming you can do so, then restarting the service after explorer crashes or sleep/hibernate events & before any backup runs may be a viable workaround.

I just tried stopping and restarting the service and, as you suggested, that restored the displaying of the icon.
I could script the stopping and restarting of the service but I assume that would be safe only if the service was idle at the time.

I would be just as satisfied with having a desktop shortcut that does the same thing as clicking on the icon or performing a Ctrl+Alt+M to bring up ReflectMonitor.exe.  (When using Remote Desktop, Ctrl+Alt+M works only when in full screen mode; I never normally use full screen mode.)  There is something special about clicking the icon or performing Ctrl+Alt+M that seems to be above my skill level
By Beardy - 8 April 2021 2:56 AM

Perfectly possible to create a script (VBS) to send CTRL+ALT+M (using something like WshShell.SendKeys "^%M" I think), not difficult to create a shortcut to run a script either, personally I detest VBS even worse than PowerShell, and I hate that, so I'm not creating a whole script to post here.  I'd probably reach for AutoIt (autoitscript.com) if I was going to create something to do something like that, just because I've been using that off & on since Windows 95 was common & still occasionally use it, simple case of being more familiar with it.
By Dypsis - 23 April 2021 7:40 AM

What are the chances of Macrium finally fixing the terrible version 7 tray icon problems we've endured in the Reflect version 8?
It shouldn't be that difficult considering version 6 didn't suffer from all these problems.
I also wouldn't mind them restoring the "Percentage Complete" tooltip that they removed in version 7. I loved that in version 6.
By dbminter - 23 April 2021 12:25 PM

The issues surrounding tray icons should be addressed when version 8 is released.  Of course, there's no telling if they will all be until it gets released into the wild and has a wider array of subjects to apply to.


Don't know about the tool tip, though.
By pokeefe - 24 May 2021 4:26 PM

Fixed in v8.
By dbminter - 24 May 2021 4:43 PM

Yes, this was one of the early issues I stressed during the v8 beta testing.  Macrium redesigned how Reflect interacts with the Notifications, etc. and directly addressed this issue.  It was one of the things I was checking to make sure was still working when v8 was released into the wild.  I had to manually drag and drop the icon into the visible area, but it worked from thereafter.  There were a few bumps in the beta road on this issue Smile but Macrium appears to have successfully addressed it.  Great job, Macrium!
By klepp0906 - 4 December 2022 2:05 PM

oddly enough, it seems to have returned (to being an issue) at least for me.  whether it was a windows update, or the recent macrium update - no idea.  but im not getting the icon showing i have a running backup in the tray/notification area/overflow whatsoever.  

checked to see if it automagically toggled off in the taskbar settings and it isnt even there... as a backup is running.  /shrug
By dbminter - 4 December 2022 2:14 PM

There was a bug in the 2nd most recent Reflect update that caused the system icons not to appear.  Are you sure you're running the latest version?
By klepp0906 - 4 December 2022 3:46 PM

I’ll have to manually check for updates. I’m updated to the most recent that was pushed to me. But if it’s super recent and I didn’t get the notification yet, it’s possible. Will check. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: and wouldnt ya know it, for whatever reason I didnt get the most recent update push (probably because i havent restarted my computer since it was pushed and it doesnt notify otherwise or if you open macrium directly or something.  regardless, updated and going to assume all is well!