Macrium Support Forum

After switching backup to Macrium Task Scheduler, 9:45 AM task starts at 9:50 AM.

https://forum.macrium.com/Topic40574.aspx

By dbminter - 15 October 2020 5:46 PM

After installing 7.3, I decided to give the Macrium Task Scheduler a try.  Yesterday, I deleted my 9:45 AM backup for this morning from Windows Task Scheduler and created the same 9:45 AM backup for today in Macrium Task Scheduler.  I checked the Log and saw it had executed, BUT the Log says it started at 9:50 AM instead of 9:45 AM.  I checked the scheduled time in the Scheduled Backups and it does still say 9:45 AM for Thursday.


Is this something to look into?


Thanks!
By jphughan - 15 October 2020 7:58 PM

I don't suppose this happened more than once yet?  If not, might want to see how reproducible this is first just to rule out something that may have interfered with the task executing as scheduled.  My own normally scheduled backup ran late yesterday, but then I realized it was because my PC wasn't on at the normally scheduled time. Smile
By dbminter - 15 October 2020 8:28 PM

Good suggestion. I only configured one task as a test of Macrium Task Scheduler's efficacy.  Since it's a weekly task, it won't run again until next Thursday.  I'll convert tomorrow's 9:45 AM Friday task from a Windows Task Scheduler task to an MTS one and see if it runs tomorrow at 9:45 AM, 9:50 AM, or some other time.
By DanDanz - 15 October 2020 9:51 PM

dbminter - 15 October 2020 5:46 PM
After installing 7.3, I decided to give the Macrium Task Scheduler a try.  Yesterday, I deleted my 9:45 AM backup for this morning from Windows Task Scheduler and created the same 9:45 AM backup for today in Macrium Task Scheduler.  I checked the Log and saw it had executed, BUT the Log says it started at 9:50 AM instead of 9:45 AM.  I checked the scheduled time in the Scheduled Backups and it does still say 9:45 AM for Thursday.


Is this something to look into?


Thanks!

If you've followed my recent posts in Scheduling on this forum, you have seen that I have been poking into difficulties with waking sleeping or hibernated systems to perform backups.  In so doing, I stumbled across an oddity with WTS -- the actual Scheduler Task Library queue entry for a task scheduled by Reflect is actually scheduled for 30 seconds prior to the requested time.   Turning on history traces for the task, I have noted that the process of starting the task and getting the backup actually running takes almost all of the 30 seconds.
So there may be some hysteresis introduced by MTS that is not compensated when generating the entry as it is for WTS.  

At the same time, 5 minutes is awfully long time compared to 30 seconds, but lacking insight into the entries in the MTS queue, I can' tell.   Good luck.  I just wanted to make you aware of the anomaly with WTS scheduled entries. 
By dbminter - 15 October 2020 10:03 PM

I was aware of the WTS latency.  I, too, had stumbled across this before.  By accident.
By dbminter - 16 October 2020 3:28 PM

Today's backup ALSO started 5 minutes OFF schedule.


Should I open a support ticket on this one?
By phred - 16 October 2020 9:42 PM


dbminter - 16 October 2020 3:28 PM
Today's backup ALSO started 5 minutes OFF schedule.


Should I open a support ticket on this one?

Granted that it sounds like a bug, but why don't you just set the scheduled time for five minutes before (or after) the time you want it to actually start? At least as a temporary work-around.
By dbminter - 16 October 2020 9:57 PM

There's argument for that temporary fix.  But, there's also argument to fix bugs, too.  Smile  After all, who's to say some backups don't run 5 HOURS off for someone else?
By phred - 17 October 2020 2:44 AM


dbminter - 16 October 2020 9:57 PM
There's argument for that temporary fix.  But, there's also argument to fix bugs, too.  Smile  After all, who's to say some backups don't run 5 HOURS off for someone else?
Ahhh ... the old "to be, or not to be."
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 2:53 PM

There's something else that may be buggy.with MTS tasks.  When they execute, there's no dialog asking to delay or execute the task.  There was normally a dialog with a countdown for 20 seconds that appears.  However, that may simply be a feature that was removed.


Another 5 minute delay on today's task.  I'm opening a support ticket on this.
By Nick - 17 October 2020 3:03 PM

dbminter - 17 October 2020 2:53 PM
There's something else that may be buggy.with MTS tasks.  When they execute, there's no dialog asking to delay or execute the task.  There was normally a dialog with a countdown for 20 seconds that appears.  However, that may simply be a feature that was removed.


Another 5 minute delay on today's task.  I'm opening a support ticket on this.

Hi

First check to make sure that the backup start dialog isn't disabled:

Other Tasks > Edit Defaults > Advanced > Advanced Backup Options:


Could you post a screen shot showing 'Schedule' and the 'Last Run Time' in the scheduled backup tab with the time discrepancy:
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 3:05 PM

@Nick 

I will get that info you requested later.  A backup is running now and I see there's a new update to Reflect.  I'll update, get that info, and let tomorrow's backup run before supporting a support ticket if requested.
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 5:02 PM

@Nick

I just checked the Advanced options and yes, the display backup notification delay for 20 seconds is still enabled.


I believe someone else posted somewhere else on the forum they encountered this same missing dialog.


Here's that screenshot you asked for.


Hm, this is interesting.  This may be a bug.  With the Reflect main interface open, Print Screen key does NOT work.  When Reflect main interface is closed, Print Screen key resumes working.  I will have to restart the PC after updating and see if it's maybe some kind of memory issue or a possible repeatable bug in the Reflect software.


I'll just type in the pertinent information from the tab. 

Schedule: At 9:45 AM every X.  (Current schedules are for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, all at 9:45 AM, all executing at 9:50 AM)
(For today, Saturday 10-17-2020) Next time run: 10/24/2020 9:45 AM
Last time run: 10/17/2020 9:45 AM
Status: Ready
Last result: 0x00 Successful
User account: SYSTEM


EDIT: I updated Reflect to 7.3.5289 and restarted my PC.  The Print Screen key STILL does NOT work for me when the Reflect main interface is opened.  It DOES work when the Reflect main interface is closed.
By jphughan - 17 October 2020 6:23 PM

Use the Snipping Tool if Print Screen doesn’t work — or even if it does since it’s much better. It gives you a variety of framing options: drawn rectangle, freehand selection area, app window, or full screen. It’s existed since Win7. Smile
By Nick - 17 October 2020 6:26 PM

dbminter - 17 October 2020 5:02 PM
@Nick

I just checked the Advanced options and yes, the display backup notification delay for 20 seconds is still enabled.


I believe someone else posted somewhere else on the forum they encountered this same missing dialog.


Here's that screenshot you asked for.


Hm, this is interesting.  This may be a bug.  With the Reflect main interface open, Print Screen key does NOT work.  When Reflect main interface is closed, Print Screen key resumes working.  I will have to restart the PC after updating and see if it's maybe some kind of memory issue or a possible repeatable bug in the Reflect software.


I'll just type in the pertinent information from the tab. 

Schedule: At 9:45 AM every X.  (Current schedules are for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, all at 9:45 AM, all executing at 9:50 AM)
(For today, Saturday 10-17-2020) Next time run: 10/24/2020 9:45 AM
Last time run: 10/17/2020 9:45 AM
Status: Ready
Last result: 0x00 Successful
User account: SYSTEM


EDIT: I updated Reflect to 7.3.5289 and restarted my PC.  The Print Screen key STILL does NOT work for me when the Reflect main interface is opened.  It DOES work when the Reflect main interface is closed.

For Windows 10 use - Windows Key + Shift + S
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 6:28 PM

Thanks for that tip!  I only ever used Print Screen in conjunction with the Snipping Tool, even the tool by itself.  I also didn't know it existed THAT far back.


@Nick


Here's that snip you requested:




EDIT: It say the last run time was 9:45 AM and it may have started at 9:45, but never actually starts the backup until 9:50.  I watched it interactively this morning and the backup didn't start appearing in the Notification area until 9:50.
By Nick - 17 October 2020 6:29 PM

dbminter - 17 October 2020 6:28 PM
Thanks for that tip!  I only ever used Print Screen in conjunction with the Snipping Tool, even the tool by itself.  I also didn't know it existed THAT far back.


@Nick


Here's that snip you requested:



Thanks for the screen shot. It confirms the scheduled task ran on time.
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 6:30 PM

@Nick


Yes, I noticed that, too.  It "starts" at 9:45 AM but the backup doesn't actually execute until 9:50.
By Nick - 17 October 2020 6:31 PM

dbminter - 17 October 2020 6:30 PM
Yes, I noticed that, too.  It "starts" at 9:45 AM but the backup doesn't actually execute until 9:50.

Can you show the log?
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 6:39 PM

I guess you mean today's backup log?  It shows where it was executed at 9:50 AM.


Image ID - 42F9DD9F2363C5CB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imaging Summary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Backup Definition File: 7 - saturday backup.xml
Auto Verify: Y
Maximum File Size: 4.00 GB
Compression: High
Password: Y
AES Encryption: None
Intelligent Copy: Y
Power Saving: N
Email On Success: N
Email On Warning: N
Email On Failure: N
Total Selected: 140.39 GB
Comment: Saturday daily backups.
Current Time: 10/17/2020 9:50:03 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retention Rules
Rules will be applied to all backup sets in the destination folder

Full: Retain full images for 1 Days
Linked incremental and differential images will also be deleted

Backup Sets: 1 sets found

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Destination:
Backup Type: Full
File Name: 7 - Saturday-00-00.mrimg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation 1 of 2
Hard Disk: 2
Drive Letter: C
File System: NTFS
CBT: Y
Label: Windows 10 2004
Size: 221.43 GB
Free: 92.30 GB
Used: 129.14 GB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation 2 of 2
Hard Disk: 3
Drive Letter: F
File System: NTFS
CBT: Y
Label: My Stuff
Size: 100.48 GB
Free: 89.23 GB
Used: 11.26 GB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting Image - Saturday, October 17, 2020 09:50:05
Initializing
Write Method: Using Direct Disk I/O
Destination Drive: Backups (J: ) - Free Space 1.92 TB
Free space threshold: Delete oldest backup sets when free space is less than 1024.0 MB

Creating Volume Snapshot - Please Wait


Volume Snapshots Created
Analyzing file system on volume C:
Analyzing file system on volume F:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saving Partition - Windows 10 2004 (C: )
Reading File System Bitmap
Saving Partition
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-00.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...

New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-00.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-01.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-01.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-02.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-02.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-03.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-03.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-04.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-04.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-05.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-05.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-06.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-06.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-07.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-07.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-08.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-08.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-09.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-09.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-10.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-10.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-11.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-11.mrimg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saving Partition - My Stuff (F: )
Reading File System Bitmap
Saving Partition
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-12.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-12.mrimg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saving Index
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-13.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-13.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/O Performance: Read 1.9 Gb/s - Write 1.0 Gb/s


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Image and Verification Completed Successfully in 00:23:54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Nick - 17 October 2020 8:38 PM

dbminter - 17 October 2020 6:39 PM
I guess you mean today's backup log?  It shows where it was executed at 9:50 AM.


Image ID - 42F9DD9F2363C5CB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imaging Summary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Backup Definition File: 7 - saturday backup.xml
Auto Verify: Y
Maximum File Size: 4.00 GB
Compression: High
Password: Y
AES Encryption: None
Intelligent Copy: Y
Power Saving: N
Email On Success: N
Email On Warning: N
Email On Failure: N
Total Selected: 140.39 GB
Comment: Saturday daily backups.
Current Time: 10/17/2020 9:50:03 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retention Rules
Rules will be applied to all backup sets in the destination folder

Full: Retain full images for 1 Days
Linked incremental and differential images will also be deleted

Backup Sets: 1 sets found

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Destination:
Backup Type: Full
File Name: 7 - Saturday-00-00.mrimg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation 1 of 2
Hard Disk: 2
Drive Letter: C
File System: NTFS
CBT: Y
Label: Windows 10 2004
Size: 221.43 GB
Free: 92.30 GB
Used: 129.14 GB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation 2 of 2
Hard Disk: 3
Drive Letter: F
File System: NTFS
CBT: Y
Label: My Stuff
Size: 100.48 GB
Free: 89.23 GB
Used: 11.26 GB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting Image - Saturday, October 17, 2020 09:50:05
Initializing
Write Method: Using Direct Disk I/O
Destination Drive: Backups (J: ) - Free Space 1.92 TB
Free space threshold: Delete oldest backup sets when free space is less than 1024.0 MB

Creating Volume Snapshot - Please Wait


Volume Snapshots Created
Analyzing file system on volume C:
Analyzing file system on volume F:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saving Partition - Windows 10 2004 (C: )
Reading File System Bitmap
Saving Partition
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-00.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...

New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-00.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-01.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-01.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-02.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-02.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-03.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-03.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-04.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-04.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-05.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-05.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-06.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-06.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-07.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-07.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-08.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-08.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-09.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-09.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-10.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-10.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-11.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-11.mrimg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saving Partition - My Stuff (F: )
Reading File System Bitmap
Saving Partition
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-12.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-12.mrimg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saving Index
New File: 4 GB 7 - Saturday-00-13.mrimg
Verifying '7 - Saturday-00-13.mrimg'
Ok. Continuing...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/O Performance: Read 1.9 Gb/s - Write 1.0 Gb/s


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Image and Verification Completed Successfully in 00:23:54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for supplying that information. Reflect actually started at the correct time so the 5 minute difference isn't something that's related to the scheduler. Can you reset the backup start dialog time to 10s ( or any number really between 0 & 60s) to see if that changes anything.
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 9:27 PM

@Nick


I changed the dialog delay to 10 seconds.  To be sure, I unchecked the option after changing the time out, hit OK, rechecked the box, and hit OK again.  I then went into Scheduled Backups tab and chose Run Now for today's backup.  However, it didn't start immediately, so I'm guessing it won't run until 5 minutes from Last Time Run.  Status is Running and Last Result is In Progress but the backup still has yet to start.  It's still got about 2 minutes let to go.


Backup started WITHOUT a countdown delay dialog like it used to.  Even after changing the countdown to 10 seconds.
By Nick - 17 October 2020 9:40 PM

dbminter - 17 October 2020 9:27 PM
@Nick


I changed the dialog delay to 10 seconds.  To be sure, I unchecked the option after changing the time out, hit OK, rechecked the box, and hit OK again.  I then went into Scheduled Backups tab and chose Run Now for today's backup.  However, it didn't start immediately, so I'm guessing it won't run until 5 minutes from Last Time Run.  Status is Running and Last Result is In Progress but the backup still has yet to start.  It's still got about 2 minutes let to go.


Backup started WITHOUT a countdown delay dialog like it used to.  Even after changing the countdown to 10 seconds.

Thanks for thr info. Can you open a support ticket
By dbminter - 17 October 2020 9:46 PM

@Nick


Sure, I'll open a support ticket.  I'll mention both the 5 minute delay and the missing countdown dialog.


Thanks!
By dbminter - 18 October 2020 2:51 PM

@Nick


Here's an interesting new data point obtained after submitting the support ticket yesterday.


After updating to the 3rd 7.3 release yesterday, I converted my Sunday backup schedule from Windows Task Scheduler to Macrium Task Scheduler.  The task DID start on time today AND execute at 9:45 AM!  However, it did NOT display the delay dialog normally associated with backups.
By dbminter - 19 October 2020 3:30 PM

Now, here's a weird thing again.  This morning's backup ran 5 minutes off schedule again after working on time yesterday.
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 3:03 PM

Now, THIS is new.  Today's backup ran at 9:50 AM again, but what was unusual this time was there was NO icon indicating the backup was running even though it was!  I used CTRL+ATL+M to bring up the Macrium window and the backup WAS running, even though there was no icon in the Notification area indicating it was running.  The activity indicator light on the target USB HDD was also flashing, indicating the backup was running.
By Nick - 20 October 2020 5:01 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 3:03 PM
Now, THIS is new.  Today's backup ran at 9:50 AM again, but what was unusual this time was there was NO icon indicating the backup was running even though it was!  I used CTRL+ATL+M to bring up the Macrium window and the backup WAS running, even though there was no icon in the Notification area indicating it was running.  The activity indicator light on the target USB HDD was also flashing, indicating the backup was running.

Thanks for posting. We've identified the cause of your problems and replied to your support ticket yesterday with regard to ReflectUI.exe and AV software.  Could you check and reply to the ticket. Many thanks. 
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 5:09 PM

@Nick


I received that reply about ReflectUI.  I just haven't been able to get around to it testing fixes yet, sorry.  I will get to it in a bit.


When you say you've identified the cause of my problems, do you mean the schedules starting 5 minutes off?


Thanks!
By Nick - 20 October 2020 5:32 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 5:09 PM
@Nick


I received that reply about ReflectUI.  I just haven't been able to get around to it testing fixes yet, sorry.  I will get to it in a bit.


When you say you've identified the cause of my problems, do you mean the schedules starting 5 minutes off?


Thanks!

Yes, that's correct and the lack of backup starting dialog, in fact, everything in this thread and more. ReflectUI handles IPC between different processes and functionality is being blocked at startup causing the entire process to hang. We can see this from the .dmp file provided. 
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 5:34 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  You guys here are the best tech support I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with!  Smile
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 6:18 PM

@Nick


Unfortunately, neither uninstalling MalwareBytes or adding the Windows Defender exclusion solved the problem.
By Nick - 20 October 2020 8:37 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 6:18 PM
@Nick


Unfortunately, neither uninstalling MalwareBytes or adding the Windows Defender exclusion solved the problem.

Thanks for getting back,

The background check for updates is hanging. An http request should never hang indefinitely and this points to a lock applied by a firewall or some other intercept that's preventing the process from completing. If you disable 'Hourly background checks', until we establish what's causing the problem, then ReflectUI can complete the other IPC requests without hinderance. This will enable the Backup Starting dialog and other IPC events to continue:



EDIT: Are you running ZoneAlarm?
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 8:45 PM

@Nick


I will try that.  I've got a few things queued up to do, including checking for Windows 10 October 2020 Update, which has apparently been released.  I want to see if that helps given some new data points I discovered.


I restored down to my backup made after updating Windows 10 to 2004 and updating Reflect to 7.3; the issue was still present.  I restored down to my 2nd oldest backup, a Windows 10 1909 installation with only an old Reflect Version 7 installed.  The issue isn't present on that 1909 installation, so maybe updating to October 2020 Update might help.  If it is still present, I'll disable the check for hourly updates.


Thanks!
By Nick - 20 October 2020 9:12 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 8:45 PM
@Nick


I will try that.  I've got a few things queued up to do, including checking for Windows 10 October 2020 Update, which has apparently been released.  I want to see if that helps given some new data points I discovered.


I restored down to my backup made after updating Windows 10 to 2004 and updating Reflect to 7.3; the issue was still present.  I restored down to my 2nd oldest backup, a Windows 10 1909 installation with only an old Reflect Version 7 installed.  The issue isn't present on that 1909 installation, so maybe updating to October 2020 Update might help.  If it is still present, I'll disable the check for hourly updates.


Thanks!

Please check for ZoneAlarm. 
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 10:05 PM

@Nick

Check what for ZoneAlarm?  I just updated to the newest version today, but that didn't help the issue.

I've updated to Windows 10 2009 just now and am in the process of checking what's what.


EDIT: Also, was there any change made between 7.2.x and 7.3.x regarding the URL or process for the update check?  It seems relevant to me that it still works under 7.2.x, but updating to 7.3.x causes ReflectUI to "stall" on the update check.


Thanks!
By Nick - 20 October 2020 10:39 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 10:05 PM
@Nick

Check what for ZoneAlarm?  I just updated to the newest version today, but that didn't help the issue.

I've updated to Windows 10 2009 just now and am in the process of checking what's what.


EDIT: Also, was there any change made between 7.2.x and 7.3.x regarding the URL or process for the update check?  It seems relevant to me that it still works under 7.2.x, but updating to 7.3.x causes ReflectUI to "stall" on the update check.


Thanks!

Check what for ZoneAlarm? I just updated to the newest version today, but that didn't help the issue.


ZoneAarm is intrusive and may be relevant. 

"Exceptions - lets you specify directories, files, or programs that you do not wish to scan for viruses and malware. This can be useful in cases when you know these directories, files, and programs are safe, but will reduce your overall protection level"

https://www.zonealarm.com/learning-center/antivirus-and-anti-spyware
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 10:52 PM

@Nick


I use the ZA free firewall, without the AV and anti-spyware features.


I disabled the hourly check and that did the trick.  It stopped the old ReflectUI "crash" but updating to Windows 10 2009 has caused a new "crash" on Windows restart.  This time it's explorer.exe.  However, it's not related to Reflect as far as I can tell.  I restarted the PC, let Windows fully load, waited a bit, and restarted without opening and closing Reflect first.  explorer.exe "crashes" on restart of Windows every time since updating to Windows 10 2009.  I tried disabling ZA first before restarting, and explorer.exe still "crashes."


I am still curious that this ReflectUI becoming unresponsive on checking for updates started only with 7.3; 7.2 doesn't do this.  I still wonder: was some change made to the http/URL update check in 7.3 that was not present in 7.2 that might explain this?


Thanks!
By Nick - 20 October 2020 11:02 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 10:05 PM
@Nick

Check what for ZoneAlarm?  I just updated to the newest version today, but that didn't help the issue.

I've updated to Windows 10 2009 just now and am in the process of checking what's what.


EDIT: Also, was there any change made between 7.2.x and 7.3.x regarding the URL or process for the update check?  It seems relevant to me that it still works under 7.2.x, but updating to 7.3.x causes ReflectUI to "stall" on the update check.


Thanks!

Also, was there any change made between 7.2.x and 7.3.x regarding the URL or process for the update check? It seems relevant to me that it still works under 7.2.x, but updating to 7.3.x causes ReflectUI to "stall" on the update check.

No, there have been no changes between 7.2 & 7.3. However, irrelevant and intrusive software such as MalwareBytes and Zone Alarm don't follow the normal rules. They can 'heuristically' break systems when there's a change in the digest of the executable binary. Digital signatures don't seem to matter. There's really no reason not to use Windows Defender. Windows Defender follows the rules. 
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 11:12 PM

I do use Windows Defender only.  MalwareBytes IS installed, but its active protections are disabled.  It's only there installed as a fall back in case malware gets in.  That malware may not let me install MalwareBytes to remove it after it's infected the system.  And I only use ZoneAlarm for its free firewall capabilities, so it shouldn't be altering files because it's not scanning them.  Plus, I tried uninstalling MalwareBytes before performing a test and ReflectUI was still unresponsive.


I'll try enabling the Hourly checks again and disabling ZA and see if the ReflectUI crashes.


Unfortunately, that still doesn't explain why it doesn't affect 7.2 but does affect 7.3.
By Nick - 20 October 2020 11:20 PM

dbminter - 20 October 2020 11:12 PM
I do use Windows Defender only.  MalwareBytes IS installed, but its active protections are disabled.  It's only there installed as a fall back in case malware gets in.  That malware may not let me install MalwareBytes to remove it after it's infected the system.  And I only use ZoneAlarm for its free firewall capabilities, so it shouldn't be altering files because it's not scanning them.  Plus, I tried uninstalling MalwareBytes before performing a test and ReflectUI was still unresponsive.


I'll try enabling the Hourly checks again and disabling ZA and see if the ReflectUI crashes.


Unfortunately, that still doesn't explain why it doesn't affect 7.2 but does affect 7.3.
Unfortunately, that still doesn't explain why it doesn't affect 7.2 but does affect 7.3

It's either ZoneAlarm or MalwareBytes. Just uninstall them.  If you don't want to do that then add an exception or disable update checking. 
By dbminter - 20 October 2020 11:29 PM

It's not MalwareBytes.  I know that for sure as I already tested uninstalling it, restarting the PC, opening and closing Reflect, and restarting the PC again.  ReflectUI still was unresponsive.  I did not test ZoneAlarm, but I doubt that could be the cause.  However, I don't mind testing it to see if that's the case.  It's a simple matter of taking an Incremental, uninstalling, testing, and restoring the Incremental.


In fact, to be doubly sure it isn't some of weird conspiracy on the part of both applications ganging up on me, I'll uninstall MalwareBytes again as part of my test.
By dbminter - 21 October 2020 12:15 AM

Well, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.  Smile  It was ZoneAlarm that was causing both problems I was experiencing, it seems.  When I tested ZA earlier, I didn't actually UNINSTALL it.  I just closed the resident part that was in the Notification area.  When I uninstalled ZoneAlarm, ReflectUI stopped not responding.  And my explorer.exe crash kind of "resolved" itself.  It didn't manifest itself at all on the first restart test.  On the 2nd restart test, an explorer.exe crash window appeared, but it closed itself off instead of requiring me to press End Now.


However, I did experience some different results initially.  I turned the Hourly checks back on in Reflect and restarted the PC.  I uninstalled MalwareBytes and restarted the PC and ReflectUI became unresponsive WITHOUT my first opening and closing the Reflect main interface.  I uninstalled ZA and restarted Windows and ReflectUI became unresponsive again WITHOUT my first opening and closing the Reflect main interface.
By Nick - 21 October 2020 6:17 AM

dbminter - 21 October 2020 12:15 AM
Well, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.  Smile  It was ZoneAlarm that was causing both problems I was experiencing, it seems.  When I tested ZA earlier, I didn't actually UNINSTALL it.  I just closed the resident part that was in the Notification area.  When I uninstalled ZoneAlarm, ReflectUI stopped not responding.  And my explorer.exe crash kind of "resolved" itself.  It didn't manifest itself at all on the first restart test.  On the 2nd restart test, an explorer.exe crash window appeared, but it closed itself off instead of requiring me to press End Now.


However, I did experience some different results initially.  I turned the Hourly checks back on in Reflect and restarted the PC.  I uninstalled MalwareBytes and restarted the PC and ReflectUI became unresponsive WITHOUT my first opening and closing the Reflect main interface.  I uninstalled ZA and restarted Windows and ReflectUI became unresponsive again WITHOUT my first opening and closing the Reflect main interface.

To clarify, removing ZoneAlarm has enabled the Reflect background update check, the backup starting dialog and resolved the 5 minute delay when a scheduled backup starts. However, you still have a problem with Explorer and ReflectUI.exe becoming unresponsive?  Whatever is causing Explorer to hang is likely the same problem that's causing ReflectUI.exe to hang.  
If possible, can you create a .dmp file, as you did previously, of ReflectUI.exe when it hangs and provide a link to your open support ticket? We can then take a look and see what might be locking. 
By dbminter - 21 October 2020 2:41 PM

No, explorer.exe has stopped becoming unresponsive after uninstalling ZoneAlarm, too.  It did "crash" once on restart of Windows after uninstalling ZoneAlarm, but it never repeated again.


I've not had a chance to test the 5 minute delay or the dialog not appearing yet, but that's coming up in 7 minutes from now.


Was ReflectUI updated between 7.2.x and 7.3?  I ask because there must be a reason why it started becoming unresponsive on 7.3 but not 7.2, even when ZoneAlarm hadn't been updated.


EDIT: The morning backup ran at 9:45 AM, started on time at 9:45 AM, and the dialog appeared!  Smile  You were right; that was what was causing the problem.
By Nick - 21 October 2020 3:07 PM

dbminter - 21 October 2020 2:41 PM
No, explorer.exe has stopped becoming unresponsive after uninstalling ZoneAlarm, too.  It did "crash" once on restart of Windows after uninstalling ZoneAlarm, but it never repeated again.


I've not had a chance to test the 5 minute delay or the dialog not appearing yet, but that's coming up in 7 minutes from now.


Was ReflectUI updated between 7.2.x and 7.3?  I ask because there must be a reason why it started becoming unresponsive on 7.3 but not 7.2, even when ZoneAlarm hadn't been updated.


EDIT: The morning backup ran at 9:45 AM, started on time at 9:45 AM, and the dialog appeared!  Smile  You were right; that was what was causing the problem.

Glad all appears to be resolved.

Was ReflectUI updated between 7.2.x and 7.3?

Nope. Functionality is exactly the same. The problem with 3rd party security software products is that they tend to ignore digital signatures and assume that when the hash of an executable changes that it needs to be 're-evaluated'. This, more often than not, does more harm than good.  It's a constant and unnecessary battle. Windows Defender and Windows Firewall is all anyone really needs, and that works properly. 
By dbminter - 21 October 2020 3:20 PM

That's really weird.  There must be some reason why 7.2.x doesn't do this but 7.3 did.  Oh, well, as long as it stops, that's all I care about!  Wink