Macrium Support Forum

Version 7 Very Long Incremental Image Processing

https://forum.macrium.com/Topic12162.aspx

By lagunasrfr - 16 March 2017 5:19 PM

Am on latest Home Edition 7.0.2079 running on Windows 10 64 with all updates current. Incremental update in V6 used to be about 20 minutes or less. Well over an hour in version 7. Am creating image on 5 TB Seagate Expansion from Toshiba L75D-A with 750 GB local drive with about 250 GB of data.
By Nick - 16 March 2017 6:23 PM

Hi 

Thanks for posting. Sorry you are having problems. 

The updates in v7.0.2079 ensures that exactly the same code execution is used as v6 so we need to check that things are OK in the write path to your backup drive.  Please try temporarily disabling AV or adding the backup folder and/or the Reflect application to your AV exclusions. This will isolate AV as the problem.  Also try toggling the 'Direct disk IO' option in the defaults as described here: http://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW7/Macrum+Reflect+v7.0+Update+16th+Mar+2017
By lagunasrfr - 17 March 2017 3:03 PM

Direct disk I/O toggle seems to have done the trick. Ran incremental and full after toggling and times returned to those under V6. One other thing about V7: Your update changes to V7 take a very long time and have required reboot due to driver change.  Do you intend to always perform updates with complete update or will you revert back to just changing certain modules as you did in V6?

Thank you Nick.
By Nick - 17 March 2017 3:26 PM

Great, glad it's sorted.  Can you confirm that you 'un-checked' the 'Disable Direct I/O..' option?

Do you intend to always perform updates with complete update or will you revert back to just changing certain modules as you did in V6?


We will be delivering new v7 updates using the more efficient binary patching method shortly. 
By lagunasrfr - 17 March 2017 6:01 PM

Did uncheck Disable Direct I/O box.
By lagunasrfr - 17 March 2017 6:02 PM

What did you mean by AV Nick?
By Drac144 - 17 March 2017 10:14 PM

AV=Antivirus software.
By lagunasrfr - 18 March 2017 1:08 AM

duh. Was thinking audio visual.
By lagunasrfr - 16 April 2017 11:28 PM

Now on v7.0.2134 (UEFI) and am getting very slow incremental processing. Transfer rates vary from 12 to 800 Mb. Transfer rate will start out slow , maybe 200Mb, then climb to maybe 650Mb. Then they will fall to less than 100 and even to low double digits. Then rate will climb again and then fall again, etc.  Have had incrementals run as long as 3 hours where they would usually run in 5 to 15 minutes. Full backups run about the same length as prior version (about 1 hr 15 minutes for an image of 220 gig active bytes on a 750 g C:drive on my laptop.
Tried all of your earlier suggestions and thought everything was ok, but now am finding inconsistent run times for incremental. Advanced incremental options are both unchecked. My Win 10 Disk policies are is enable write caching on the target external drive.
Have included log files for latest incremental backup where filesize added to backup set was 6 gig and took 39 minutes. .

Thanks for your help Nick.
By Nick - 17 April 2017 11:50 AM

Hi 

Thanks for getting back. 

Incremental images will often have an inconsistent transfer rate. This is caused by two factors:

1. The data included in the Incremental may well be scattered across the File System. Unlike a Full image, which reads sequentially across the File system, an Incremental may cause the source disk to Seek  during the Incremental. If you are imaging a drive that is in use by Windows (such as C) then these Seeks will slow down the image process. 

2. Large files that have at least 1 cluster changed will cause the entire file to be read to determine which clusters have actually changed in the Incremental.  So, for example, a multi-GB VHD file with only a small change will incur the penalty of reading the whole file to determine which clusters to actually backup up. This time penalty is mitigated when using Changed Block tracking. http://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW7/Macrium+Changed+Block+Tracker
By Froggie - 17 April 2017 1:12 PM

I would also have a good look at that external drive... if S.M.A.R.T. data is available, give it a look.

You can also give it a quick test by moving a very large file, via Windows Explorer, to that external storage element and watch the bandwidth being used while the transfer is in progress (expand the DETAILS of the copying window)... it'll start high due to your device caching but will drop to normal eventually and hopefully stay there.
By lagunasrfr - 20 April 2017 2:41 PM

I implemented CBT and it seems to have done the trick. Very fast incremental image backups so far. I don't notice any degradation in other processing.

As usual, thanks for your help Nick
By stuarttunstall - 26 May 2017 9:02 PM

lagunasrfr - 17 March 2017 3:03 PM
Direct disk I/O toggle seems to have done the trick. Ran incremental and full after toggling and times returned to those under V6. One other thing about V7: Your update changes to V7 take a very long time and have required reboot due to driver change.  Do you intend to always perform updates with complete update or will you revert back to just changing certain modules as you did in V6?

Thank you Nick.

I purchase Macrium Reflect HOME version last week and installed it today... It did the very first full image earlier today which took about 1 hour and 10 mins to image 5 Windows partitions and about 185GB data inc the verification... 
I have set it to do the Full/DIFF/INC backups at 8pm so it has just done the first incremental backup which seemed to take about 20mins not sure if that is correct? 
Reading this I have added the backup external drive to my AV exclude.. 
Done the reboot so CBT should now be active... How can I confirm this? 
And I did try to uncheck the Direct disk I/O but i do not seem to have that option? any idea why? this is all the options I have ... I am running v7.0.2173
Also, can you use the notebook whilst the image is in progress?

http://forum.macrium.com/uploads/images/32149a08-e48c-4475-8b67-3fa6.jpg
By Arvy - 26 May 2017 9:12 PM

You can find complete information regarding the Macrium Reflect Changed Block Tracker (MRCBT) in this KB article.  For a visual representation of its status and activity run the CBTTools utility normally found at C:\Program Files\Macrium\Reflect\MrCBTTools.exe
By stuarttunstall - 26 May 2017 9:20 PM

Thanks for the reply...TWO questions if I can..

1.  Any idea why I am missing the option to disable the direct disk I/O as per the image above?

2. When I did the first incremental back up I had not rebooted the notebook, since rebooting I now have two icons next to the two main partitions, these are grey... I did read that the first backup after this is enabled will be normal, and then the CBT will be used, will these change colour after the next run (which will be 8pm tomorrow)
http://forum.macrium.com/uploads/images/6aed64af-a276-41e0-967f-b4ff.jpg


By Arvy - 26 May 2017 9:43 PM

RE #1:  It's not "missing" from the place you're looking.  Reflect's default settings, including its Advanced Backup Options, are listed and explained in this KB article.  The Backup -> Disk Write Performance setting (File System Cache, Direct Disk I/O, or Auto) is handled for each drive as explained in this KB article.

RE #2: To quote from the KB article linked above:
With our Changed Block Tracker driver enabled, the first incremental/differential image taken since Windows was restarted will be performed using the traditional method. This ensures that any changes to the NTFS file system that may have occurred outside of the current Windows session are recorded into the image file. From this point on, any incremental/differential images that are taken, within the current Windows session, will use our Changed Block Tracker technology.
In other words, it applies only when you run more than one incremental or differential backup within a single Windows session, and yes, the icon colours will change to reflect its status: No Icon = CBT disabled; Grey Icon = CBT enabled but no image has been created since Windows was started; Blue Icon = CBT enabled and an image has been created since Window was started so the next incremental or differential image will use CBT.
By jphughan - 26 May 2017 9:55 PM

And to answer an earlier question, yes you can use your notebook while the image is being captured, though any data changes that occur after the image begins will not be captured in that image since Reflect backs up according to a snapshot captured at the beginning of the image process to ensure data integrity. But that same technique is what allows you to safely continue using the notebook during the process.
By stuarttunstall - 26 May 2017 10:12 PM

Arvy - 26 May 2017 9:43 PM
RE #1:  It's not "missing" from the place you're looking.  Reflect's default settings, including its Advanced Backup Options, are listed and explained in this KB article.  The Backup -> Disk Write Performance setting (File System Cache, Direct Disk I/O, or Auto) is handled for each drive as explained in this KB article.

RE #2: To quote from the KB article linked above:
With our Changed Block Tracker driver enabled, the first incremental/differential image taken since Windows was restarted will be performed using the traditional method. This ensures that any changes to the NTFS file system that may have occurred outside of the current Windows session are recorded into the image file. From this point on, any incremental/differential images that are taken, within the current Windows session, will use our Changed Block Tracker technology.
In other words, it applies only when you run more than one incremental or differential backup within a single Windows session, and yes, the icon colours will change to reflect its status: No Icon = CBT disabled; Grey Icon = CBT enabled but no image has been created since Windows was started; Blue Icon = CBT enabled and an image has been created since Window was started so the next incremental or differential image will use CBT.

Thank you for the reply.. 

The CBT is exactly as I read it, thank you for the confirmation Smile 

The reason I asked about the direct disk was the link shown earlier in this post, http://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW7/Macrum+Reflect+v7.0+Update+16th+Mar+2017 which showed the option were I was looking... but mine was missing.. Smile 
By stuarttunstall - 26 May 2017 10:13 PM

jphughan - 26 May 2017 9:55 PM
And to answer an earlier question, yes you can use your notebook while the image is being captured, though any data changes that occur after the image begins will not be captured in that image since Reflect backs up according to a snapshot captured at the beginning of the image process to ensure data integrity. But that same technique is what allows you to safely continue using the notebook during the process.

Thank you... mind did run a little slower though which I suspect may be the case Smile 
By Arvy - 26 May 2017 10:15 PM

You can adjust Reflect's priority in relation to other tasks if you wish.  As to whether 20 minutes is the "correct" amount of time for an incremental following a full that took a little over an hour, that question is impossible to answer with any certainty as it depends entirely on what changes occurred in the interval.  However, it doesn't seem excessive keeping in mind that Windows itself makes many changes in the background and Reflect has to track them all.  You can check the Reflect operational log if you want to examine the read/write speeds.

I can only assume that the current KB item supersedes that March item as we're now at v7.0.2173.  But I wouldn't bet much money on it either way.  Maybe a Macrium rep will clarify.
By stuarttunstall - 26 May 2017 10:24 PM

I will do that, thank you ... 

I also use Memeo instant back up as well for an automatic backup of files and I know when I first installed that it took about a week to completely back up my files and folders, so I was more than happy with about 1 hour to do the image, and I suppose 20 mins is good in comparison.. 

As this is all new to me I will have a read of the manual a bit more... but I am happy so far and Macrium did come highly recommended Smile 

By Arvy - 26 May 2017 10:44 PM

Reflect is a very solid backup and recovery application.  I'm personally not so keen on some of its recently added "bells and whistles", but that's just me.  You can be assured that you've made a very sound choice.