All Incremental & Previous Synthetic Full Backups Deleted


Author
Message
phrab
phrab
Proficient Member
Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 191, Visits: 421
I'm confused by what happened.  I had a backup set that had a synthetic full + 7 incrementals (I switch external drives every week), so that I can always go back almost 2 weeks).  It's set as follows:


I updated my Win10 computer today to 21H1 & wanted a full backup before I did.  So I created a separate Full backup.  I didn't want any incrementals for that backup.  If everything went well, I was just going to keep that backup & my synthetic full & incrementals.  So I ran the full backup & here are my settings:


While it ran successfully, it deleted my synthetic full & it's incrementals.

My question is: how could I have created a full backup that would never have any differential or incremental backups, but then have my synthetic full + incrementals remain as scheduled?

Thank you in advance!

Phil
Windows 10 Pro
Windows XP- SP-3

jphughan
jphughan
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K, Visits: 65K
Fyi when asking for help diagnosing things like this, it's often much more useful to post the actual job log than a screenshot of your definition file that doesn't even show all of your settings.  Not only is the job log easy to copy/paste as text, which makes for easier reading than a screenshot, but it contains the relevant job settings AND what actually happened during that specific job.  At the moment my guess is that if you read the log, you will find that the low disk space purge was triggered, since you have that enabled.

But if you wanted a Full that would never have Incrementals added to it by your normal backup routine, then you would have needed to send that Full to a different destination.  That also would have avoided an unexpected deletion of any other backups, since they would have been in a different folder.  But if your alternate definition file instead specified the same destination and included the same partitions as your "main" definition file, then the next time your main definition file performed an Incremental, that Incremental would have been appended to that newer Full, because an Incremental always appends to the latest matching backup -- and if you're backing up the same partitions in both of those jobs, then their backups will match, regardless of the what if any definition file was used to create them.  The definition file is just a set of saved settings for convenience.  Reflect does not "segregate" backups simply because they were created by different definition files, in fact I've helped people here set up backup strategies that involve using multiple definition files that are creating backups in the same set because they had more complex retention policy requirements that couldn't have been achieved with a single definition file.

Edited 20 May 2021 10:24 PM by jphughan
jphughan
jphughan
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K, Visits: 65K
Correction: Your definition file shows that you set your retention policy to 1 Full backup.  That would have caused all previous Fulls, and therefore their child backups, to be deleted.  Here again, the issue is that you sent that "special" backup to the same destination folder.

Edited 20 May 2021 10:27 PM by jphughan
phrab
phrab
Proficient Member
Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)Proficient Member (315 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 191, Visits: 421
jphughan - 20 May 2021 10:16 PM
Fyi when asking for help diagnosing things like this, it's often much more useful to post the actual job log than a screenshot of your definition file that doesn't even show all of your settings.  Not only is the job log easy to copy/paste as text, which makes for easier reading than a screenshot, but it contains the relevant job settings AND what actually happened during that specific job.  At the moment my guess is that if you read the log, you will find that the low disk space purge was triggered, since you have that enabled.

But if you wanted a Full that would never have Incrementals added to it by your normal backup routine, then you would have needed to send that Full to a different destination.  That also would have avoided an unexpected deletion of any other backups, since they would have been in a different folder.  But if your alternate definition file instead specified the same destination and included the same partitions as your "main" definition file, then the next time your main definition file performed an Incremental, that Incremental would have been appended to that newer Full, because an Incremental always appends to the latest matching backup -- and if you're backing up the same partitions in both of those jobs, then their backups will match, regardless of the what if any definition file was used to create them.  The definition file is just a set of saved settings for convenience.  Reflect does not "segregate" backups simply because they were created by different definition files, in fact I've helped people here set up backup strategies that involve using multiple definition files that are creating backups in the same set because they had more complex retention policy requirements that couldn't have been achieved with a single definition file.

Thank you for your complete explanation.  I'll know next time to send the full backup to a folder inside the external drive.  I had thought that because the chains were different that they would be treated independently. I'll know for next time.  Also, I'll remember to post the log next time also.

Since the option said "linked" incremental & differential images will also be deleted, I thought it meant that it wouldn't delete the "unlinked" ones, so I was confused.

Since the current full backup isn't scheduled to run again & "my synthetic full + 7 incrementals" is, that it will start a new chain tomorrow & that I don't have to use a different destination.

Phil
Windows 10 Pro
Windows XP- SP-3

Edited 20 May 2021 10:48 PM by phrab
jphughan
jphughan
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K, Visits: 65K
Happy to help.  With image backups, the backups are considered a match if they contain exactly the same set of partitions, meaning no partitions added or omitted, and the same size and "offset" (position on disk) of each partition.  Reflect doesn't care what definition file created them.  And there are cases where that's actually useful.  The one I mentioned above is one.  In other scenarios, somebody might have been creating backups manually and finally decided to switch to a definition file.  They might want to continue their existing set.  And it's also possible to create new backups, including Diff/Inc backups, from Rescue Media, where there are no definition files at all.  But the definition file only helps create the desired backup.  It has no "influence" into the future in terms of how that backup is treated relative to other backups.

AHansen
AHansen
Talented Member
Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)Talented Member (118 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 60, Visits: 393
jphughan - 20 May 2021 10:51 PM
...  backups are considered a match if they contain exactly the same set of partitions, meaning no partitions added or omitted, and the same size and "offset" (position on disk) of each partition.

@jphughan based on the description of Reflect "match" does that mean the actual backup set name is irrelevant to identification of matches?

jphughan
jphughan
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K, Visits: 65K
File names are irrelevant. Naming otherwise dissimilar backups using the same pattern won’t cause them to be considered a match, and renaming matching backups won’t cause Reflect to stop seeing them as a match.
Patrick O'Keefe
Patrick O'Keefe
Proficient Member
Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 269, Visits: 1.5K
+x
jphughan - 20 May 2021 10:51 PM
...  With image backups, the backups are considered a match if they contain exactly the same set of partitions, meaning no partitions added or omitted, and the same size and "offset" (position on disk) of each partition.  Reflect doesn't care what definition file created them.  ...  But the definition file only helps create the desired backup.  It has no "influence" into the future in terms of how that backup is treated relative to other backups.
+x[quote

jphughan - 16 June 2021 12:55 PM
File names are irrelevant. Naming otherwise dissimilar backups using the same pattern won’t cause them to be considered a match, and renaming matching backups won’t cause Reflect to stop seeing them as a match.
[/quote]

Whoo boy!  If there is Beginner's Guide to Macrium Reflect, that should be highlighted.  (Of course I didn't even look for such a Guide so I would have missed it anyway.)  This behavior is not "intuitively obvious" ... although neither is any other behavior; all behavior needs to be explained. Those statements explain a bunch of postings I couldn't understand.

jphughan
jphughan
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (15K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K, Visits: 65K
Patrick O'Keefe - 16 June 2021 4:14 PM
Whoo boy!  If there is Beginner's Guide to Macrium Reflect, that should be highlighted.  (Of course I didn't even look for such a Guide so I would have missed it anyway.)  This behavior is not "intuitively obvious" ... although neither is any other behavior; all behavior needs to be explained. Those statements explain a bunch of postings I couldn't understand.

I'm not sure it's ever been expressly stated, but it's worth noting that the default behavior of Reflect is to name files just with an Image ID, which is a random string of characters.  That Image ID is generated per set, and each backup in that set has a name consisting of that Image ID plus a pair of two-digit numbers at the end.  But this means that two Fulls (and therefore to sets) created by the same definition file would have completely different names.  So if name similarity were the basis for matching, Reflect's default file naming would be a total non-starter.  And actually starting with V8's new file name parameters/variables, it's possible to have backups WITHIN a set have file names that differ by more than just those numbers at the end.  That would make the name even more problematic if it were to be used for Reflect's matching logic.  In fairness I guess I don't really expect the typical user to deduce all of that just from noticing Reflect's default file naming behavior, but I also wouldn't have expected the average user to figure they could "trick" Reflect into matching or not matching by simply renaming some files.

Patrick O'Keefe
Patrick O'Keefe
Proficient Member
Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)Proficient Member (370 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 269, Visits: 1.5K
jphughan - 20 May 2021 10:51 PM
With image backups, the backups are considered a match if they contain exactly the same set of partitions, meaning no partitions added or omitted, and the same size and "offset" (position on disk) of each partition.  ...
I know this is the wrong sub-forum for this question, but what are the matching rules for Files & Folders backups?  An RTFM is fine if you point me to the fine manual.


GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Reading This Topic

Login

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search