Automatic Update


Author
Message
valkyriebiker
valkyriebiker
New Member
New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6, Visits: 42
Reflect reseller here, adding my voice to the many: Please implement an (optional) automatic update feature to reflect. Here I will explain why *not* having an auto-update leads to a bad UX.

*None* of my clients are computer experts and a lot of them are downright phobic. When MR needs to update then my clients don't know what to do. Sometimes they call me asking "what is this Macrium thing?" (though I've explained it many times) and often not, just ignoring the pesky update notifications. Consequently, MR goes without updates.

For those that might say "it's their fault for ignoring the notifications", let me offer this: Win 10 (and browser!) notifications are the new spam. No one pays attention to it. Even if they did, muggles cannot be expected to understand which updates are legit, which are bloatware, and which are phishing attempts. Most of them have been trained from years of admonition to be wary of software they don't recognize so they won't allow anything to update.

I know this because I have hundreds of clients, both private and small biz. I see this daily.

I recommend that MR implement an auto-update system that doesn't pester the user. For updates that require a restart then simply queue the update to take effect at the next opportunistic system restart -- again, without bugging the user. This is not rocket science.

Lacking an automatic MR update system, I've developed my own automatic update that does all this but I'd rather not have to do that!

For those that dislike this idea, then just make it OPTIONAL. For those that want to micromanage software updates (including myself) then they'd have the option. But for my clients who don't understand and don't want to understand, it would be a real benefit.

Edited 30 December 2020 5:50 PM by valkyriebiker
Beardy
Beardy
Talented Member
Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 115, Visits: 458
+1 Members of my family just ignore such notifications, whenever I get to them there are update notifications sitting ignored from, Macrium, & others. If I ask when the icon appeared, they either don't know or the answer is "months ago".
Drac144
Drac144
Expert
Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 594, Visits: 2.4K
The other side of this is, several times in the past 12-18 months an update has broken some aspect of Reflect operation.  If every update was perfect, an auto update would be good. But, especially for a muggle, a bad update could be a bigger mess than not updating at all.  I would not want to have to support undoing an update for a non-technical client.  I understand there are pros and cons - I am just pointing out a con. 
valkyriebiker
valkyriebiker
New Member
New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)New Member (16 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6, Visits: 42
Drac144 - 30 December 2020 10:17 PM
The other side of this is, several times in the past 12-18 months an update has broken some aspect of Reflect operation.  If every update was perfect, an auto update would be good. But, especially for a muggle, a bad update could be a bigger mess than not updating at all.  I would not want to have to support undoing an update for a non-technical client.  I understand there are pros and cons - I am just pointing out a con. 

Of course, that's a good and valid point -- for managed clients. Mainly corporate clients. I'll grant you, for complex software that isn't retail in nature (not sold directly to the end-user by the vendor) thus is likely managed by professional I.T., an argument can be made that auto-updates isn't advisable.

But for retail, consumer-facing applications like Reflect (they even have a "home" version), many vendors have decided that automatic updates are better anyway *even if* a buggy update could be installed. Muggles are not going to vet each update to ensure it's bug free or otherwise appropriate. So, IMO, better to deploy the update lest they never update at all. If there's a problem then deploy a fix ASAP.

Most of my private clients are unmanaged (break/fix only) which is how I like it. It would be a better experience for them and more convenient for me if MR had a fully automatic update mechanism.

e.g. Much as I love Malwarebytes, their update mech sucks. Signature updates are automatic, but code updates are not -- prompting the user to perform them. I can't count the number of times I remote into a client's computer and see that Malwarebytes notification hanging on the screen. Same with Reflect (since I sell it to most of my clients). That's a bad UX that needs fixing.

So, please MR people, give us an optional automatic update!




jphughan
jphughan
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (12K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.4K, Visits: 57K
I see validity on both sides of this discussion, which means I see value in offering OPTIONAL automatic updates.  But @valkyriebiker, unfortunately the point raised by Drac144 is more valid than it really should be.  I support a few clients myself, and nowadays I only install Reflect updates if the release notes indicate they contain some fix or enhancement that would actually be relevant to my clients.  I've seen a few too many Reflect updates that contain fixes for problems that were only introduced in the immediately preceding update, some of which are significant in their affected user base and/or impact.  To be clear, I do NOT advocate a pure "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, since I've also seen several cases on this forum where users running severely outdated Reflect installations and/or Rescue Media encountered problems or other hassles that could have been avoided if they'd simply updated to a newer release at some point.  Their reasoning was, "My backups are working and I'm happy with the current feature set, so why would I bother even looking at updates?"  Well, partly because backups aren't the only thing Reflect does.  It also has to...restore properly when the need arises, and sometimes that's where outdated Reflect or Rescue Media can become a problem.  But for users who have the inclination and knowledge to evaluate release notes, I do advocate taking an informed "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, i.e. keep yourself apprised of what's on offer with updates so that you know whether updating might be worthwhile.  But I fully grant that this is not a muggle approach.  For people who simply won't even bother to install updates manually, never mind reading release notes, unfortunately there are potential pitfalls with both approaches here, and I'm honestly not sure which one I think would be better overall when it comes to Reflect.

Gork
Gork
Guru
Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 629, Visits: 2.5K
Two other issues at play...

Sometimes the computer must be restarted after a Reflect update.  This could be problematic.

And, sometimes rescue media must be updated to be compatible with the newest backups.  So if Reflect is updated automatically and nobody takes notice in order to update the rescue media there is a possibility that subsequent backups could not be restored via the rescue media if needed.
Drac144
Drac144
Expert
Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)Expert (891 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 594, Visits: 2.4K
I am not aware of any changes to the Reflect image format since version 5.  So not having the latest version of Reflect on your rescue media should not be an issue for backing up or restoring.  You may not have the latest features or changes on your rescue media but it will work just fine to restore images.
Gork
Gork
Guru
Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 629, Visits: 2.5K
Drac144 - 9 January 2021 7:41 PM
I am not aware of any changes to the Reflect image format since version 5.  So not having the latest version of Reflect on your rescue media should not be an issue for backing up or restoring.  You may not have the latest features or changes on your rescue media but it will work just fine to restore images.

It seems to me there have been changes to the main program in the past which, when at least new options are implemented, have made changes which older rescue media cannot accommodate. It seems this was the reasoning behind Macrium issuing notices to update rescue media to accommodate new versions of the software when necessary. At the very least, there have been problems introduced in the past with updates which rendered backups useless and without a proper update with recovery environment testing this could lead to data loss in the future if something similar were to happen again. I'm not referring to changes in the base Reflect backup file format - I believe that you're correct in that regard, with the caveat that added features to the program have added data to backup files to accommodate those changes.

I certainly welcome further explanation of I'm still misunderstanding something though.
Beardy
Beardy
Talented Member
Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)Talented Member (144 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 115, Visits: 458
My experience has been that Macrium are careful to make newer versions of Rescue backwards compatible with restoring backups made with older versions.
I've actually restored v5 backups using v7 restore media, also mounted & explored them with v7.

What you sometimes can't do is restore a backup made with an updated version using old rescue media.
Gork
Gork
Guru
Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)Guru (1.3K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 629, Visits: 2.5K
"What you sometimes can't do is restore a backup made with an updated version using old rescue media."

This is exactly what I'm referring to. If reflect updates automatically and backups continue to run but the rescue media is not updated and is later needed to restore those backups, it may result in a negative experience.
GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Reading This Topic

Login

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search