After Cloning SSD to another SSD, Win10 is not bootable


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Andreas
Andreas
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I have two SSDs in my system: Samsung 850 + 860 EVO, both 1TB (to have one windows production and one test installation).
- Disk0: Samsung 850 EVO: fresh installation of Windows 10, 20H2
- Disk2: Samsung 860 EVO: older upgrade installation of Win10, 2004

The aim: I wanted to clone disk 0 to disk 2, to have the new installation on both SSDs.
Problem: system doesn't boot anymore.
There is no boot menue anymore and it is also not possible, to boot disk0 or disk2 from the bootmenue in BIOS.

Luckily I had a backup of disk2. After restore I found out, that the fresh installation on Disk0 has only the windows partition on it.
Only disk2 had an additional 100MB boot partition in front of its windows partition.

Years ago with Windows 7 and Acronis True Image I had never an issue, to restore any Windows installation.
There was a restore option to set the image as bootable.
I didn't find something compareable with Macrium Reflect.

Please help me, how can I clone the fresh installation to disk two and get the two SSDs bootable so that it would even be possible to boot them from BIOS boot menue ?!
Many thanks for your kind assistence.


Andreas
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Here a screenshot, I hope this helps you to understand the issue:



Edited 23 November 2020 7:58 PM by Andreas
Andreas
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According to this forum article (sorry in german) https://forum.chip.de/discussion/1693699/windows-versteckte-100mb-system-partition-klonen
it shall be possible to get the Windows partition bootable by either performing a repair from a Windows Boot DVD
which does some modifications, that the 100MB partition is not required anymore to boot Windows.
They also tell that products like Norton Ghost and Acronis perform this task for you. As former long term Acronis customer (since 5y not anymore) I can tell that this was simply an option when restoring Windows Partitions to make it bootable. A simple tick box to enable this function, very easy and straightforward.

So .. are there some possibilities in Macrium Reflect, which I am unaware off, to make this installation bootable ?
Or is this more something like a feature requrest for Macrium Reflect to be more on par with other backup programs like Acronis (which are otherwise pure crap).

I would expect such an option for
- repair (to make an existing Windows partition bootable)
- restore
- cloning

Edited 24 November 2020 11:51 AM by Andreas
Rootman
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I am not seeing any EFI partition, so it looks like these OS both boot via MBR / Legacy?

The last time I did this with a disk Macrium neglected to ACTIVATE the first partition.  This is necessary for a MBR / legacy boot.  You do that by imaging the disk, then opening up Disk Management from the running OS, selecting the Windows partition and selecting 'Mark Partition as Active'.
Andreas
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You are right, this is legacy ... (side note: I do not need / like the additional complexity of EFI).
Ok, but what do you do if you need to recover this image and if you do not have a running OS ?

IMHO I think there should be an easy solution for this with Macrium as this is your 3rd party recovery tool.

Side note two .. if Acronis was able to perform this (I hate acronis for the poor quality and 2x data loss with it)
then I would expect that Macrium should not be worse compared to Acronis (which was initially good but then unluckily
became very poor quality and support).


Froggie
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There is a FixBOOT option on the REFLECT Recovery Media... did you use it after the restoration was performed?
Andreas
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Hi,
many thanks Froggie, I was not aware of, that something like this exists.
I am running Macrium Reflect in 99,9% of all cases from Windows (from there it reboots into PE if a partition is in use).
Hmm, you can select only 1 disk and there are a lot of options (4) active, where I hope it does the right thing.
Well, this needs more time to try it out. Maybe next weekend.

Would be nice if this could be triggered also when performing a restore or cloning from Windows.
Appears a little cumbersome having to boot from recovery images extra for that task / step.

jphughan
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Andreas, if you're trying to plan for a scenario where your system isn't bootable at all, then you shouldn't be doing your testing from within Windows, since your scenario assumes you won't have a working Windows environment available to use.  The scenario you're asking about is exactly why Rescue Media exists.  The boot menu recovery option that you're using, where Reflect reboots into PE if needed, can be convenient because it allows you to use the Rescue Media environment without having to go get your Rescue Media.  But that's because that option relies on booting from Rescue Media/PE files on your disk, which means it only works if those files actually exist on your disk and are intact -- and there are certainly scenarios where that won't be the case, including major file system corruption problems or of course complete replacement of a failed drive with a new drive that is completely empty.

So if you haven't already, I would strongly encourage you to create Rescue Media and test boot your system from it.  This will verify that a) you actually have Rescue Media, b) you know how to tell your PC to boot from it, c) Rescue is able to see all of the hardware that it would need to if you needed it, such as internal disks, external drives, network locations, etc., and d) you know how to actually perform operations in Rescue.  It looks very similar to Reflect within Windows, but it does have some extra functionality, including the Fix Boot Problems wizard that Froggie mentioned.  It also includes ReDeploy, which can be necessary if you ever need to restore your image onto different PC hardware than it was originally captured from.  (The boot menu recovery environment also offers these utilities since it's exactly the same environment as what gets put on your Rescue Media, but again you should make sure you can recover from a scenario where you don't have anything usable on your internal disk at all.)

In addition, when performing a clone, typically your destination disk's partition layout should match your source disk's.  In your screenshot, your destination disk has a System Reserved partition that doesn't exist on the source.  It's not clear to me why you're keeping that rather than just cloning the source disk to the destination exactly as-is.  To do that, you'd just choose to clone the source disk, select the destination disk as the target, and then click "Copy selected partitions".  Based on the placement of the source disk's partitions, the job will then be staged so that any existing partitions on the destination disk will be overwritten if you proceed with the clone.


Edited 24 November 2020 5:20 PM by jphughan
jphughan
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Building on my earlier reply, you should also be aware that Windows isn't really designed to have two "fully independent" Windows disks installed at the same time.  In a dual boot environment that Windows itself would set up, you can have different Windows installations on different physical disks, but in that case there's still only a single Windows Boot Manager.  For example, if I install Windows 7 onto Disk 1, then I later use regular Windows Setup to perform a Windows 10 installation to Disk 2, the Windows Boot Manager bootloader on Disk 1 gains a new entry that would allow me to boot into Windows 10.  But the important thing to understand here is that at a system level, the system is always booting from Disk 1 into that Windows Boot Manager interface.  The convenience of this design is that the user gets a simple menu to allow switching back and forth rather than having to muck around with BIOS-level boot options.  But the CATCH is that the Windows 10 disk is NOT bootable directly.  If you physically removed the Windows 7 disk, you would not be able to boot your system straight into Windows 10.  You can experiment with this in a VM if you'd like.

If you want fully independent disks, then the best way to set them up would probably be to set up your first disk, then disconnect it, connect the second disk, and set that one up so that the second environment doesn't even know that there was a previous environment.  Then reconnect the first disk.  That will get you two fully independent environments, but it will also mean that if you want to choose which environment you want to boot from, you'll have to do that at a BIOS level so that the system actually boots from the desired disk rather than always booting into one disk's Windows Boot Manager interface, because neither disk's Windows Boot Manager environment will be aware of the other disk.  Hopefully your system offers a "one-time boot menu" hotkey so that you don't have to actually rearrange the boot order every time you want to switch.

It's also probably worth pointing out that the Fix Boot Problems wizard might not work as desired with this type of custom setup.  I'm not sure since I've never tested this scenario.

Edited 24 November 2020 5:28 PM by jphughan
Rootman
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Andreas, did you create bootable media when you installed Macrium reflect?  If not, you need to get to a running OS on the OLD disk start Macrium and use the left side menu and select OTHER TOOLS, then CREATE BOOTABLE RESCUE MEDIA.  Either make a DVD or USB media.  Then shut the system down, disconnect the OLD SSD leaving just the NEW SSD connected and boot to the Rescue Media.  Use the FIXBOOT utility.

It usually fixes the issue.  The last time I had this issue I knew what the issue was, I had  another utility handy so is used it, activated the first partition and rebooted and it worked like a charm.

BTW, there is nothing to fear about EFI.  It is actually SIMPLER than MBR booting, in fact all there really needs to be is a FAT32 partition with the correct boot files in it and it just boots, no partition ACTIVATION issues.  You can even switch it from MBR / Legacy to EFI.  New PCs are coming with chipsets that DO NOT support legacy boot, so you are headed that way sometime soon.  The PC I had the issue with was MBR and once I got it to boot I switched it to EFI, it will likely be the LAST PC I get that supports MBR / legacy.    That way next go around of hardware upgrades I may just be able to use the current OS on the new hardware by just restoring it to the new hardware. 
GO

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