Macrium Boot menu option not shown


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FanFox
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All versions of Macrium are the latest as at 14th November, 2020,  and OS is W10.

I have a desktop running 1909 Pro and paid Macrium, an Asus laptop running 2004 Home and free Macrium, and an HP i3 Pavilion laptop with 1909 Home and free Macrium.

On the first two machines, booting will go from the manufacturer's logo screen (Stage 1) to the blue Macrium/Windows selection screen (Stage 2), and thence to Win logon screen (Stage 3).

However, on the HP laptop, the second stage of offering the boot options does not appear, and the machine goes straight from Stage 1 to 3.
I have checked the msconfig files on all machines, and the contents in the Boot section are identical. The HP laptop boot menu screenshot is attached.
I have removed the HP laptop Macrium Boot Menu and re-enabled it, but no change. The settings for this are as per the screenshot.

With all the problems on W10 Feature updates, I'm imaging any machine that is in line for said update, but I do want to get the HP sorted out so that I can recover back to an image if required, and via the boot option screen.
I'd welcome any advice on how to get this to work.





capair45
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FanFox - 14 November 2020 9:44 AM
All versions of Macrium are the latest as at 14th November, 2020,  and OS is W10.

I have a desktop running 1909 Pro and paid Macrium, an Asus laptop running 2004 Home and free Macrium, and an HP i3 Pavilion laptop with 1909 Home and free Macrium.

On the first two machines, booting will go from the manufacturer's logo screen (Stage 1) to the blue Macrium/Windows selection screen (Stage 2), and thence to Win logon screen (Stage 3).

However, on the HP laptop, the second stage of offering the boot options does not appear, and the machine goes straight from Stage 1 to 3.
I have checked the msconfig files on all machines, and the contents in the Boot section are identical. The HP laptop boot menu screenshot is attached.
I have removed the HP laptop Macrium Boot Menu and re-enabled it, but no change. The settings for this are as per the screenshot.

With all the problems on W10 Feature updates, I'm imaging any machine that is in line for said update, but I do want to get the HP sorted out so that I can recover back to an image if required, and via the boot option screen.
I'd welcome any advice on how to get this to work.





I did a bit of forum searching and found a couple threads regarding third-party anti-virus conflicts with building the boot menu (Windows Defender is OK).  You might try removing the boot menu, disabling anti-virus, and then creating the boot menu again.

Windows 10 Home (21H1)  Build 19043.1237
Macrium Reflect 8.0.6161
Windows Defender
Malwarebytes Premium 4.4.6


FanFox
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capair45 - 14 November 2020 11:56 AM
FanFox - 14 November 2020 9:44 AM
All versions of Macrium are the latest as at 14th November, 2020,  and OS is W10.

I have a desktop running 1909 Pro and paid Macrium, an Asus laptop running 2004 Home and free Macrium, and an HP i3 Pavilion laptop with 1909 Home and free Macrium.

On the first two machines, booting will go from the manufacturer's logo screen (Stage 1) to the blue Macrium/Windows selection screen (Stage 2), and thence to Win logon screen (Stage 3).

However, on the HP laptop, the second stage of offering the boot options does not appear, and the machine goes straight from Stage 1 to 3.
I have checked the msconfig files on all machines, and the contents in the Boot section are identical. The HP laptop boot menu screenshot is attached.
I have removed the HP laptop Macrium Boot Menu and re-enabled it, but no change. The settings for this are as per the screenshot.

With all the problems on W10 Feature updates, I'm imaging any machine that is in line for said update, but I do want to get the HP sorted out so that I can recover back to an image if required, and via the boot option screen.
I'd welcome any advice on how to get this to work.





I did a bit of forum searching and found a couple threads regarding third-party anti-virus conflicts with building the boot menu (Windows Defender is OK).  You might try removing the boot menu, disabling anti-virus, and then creating the boot menu again.

Thanks. I'll give that a try. However, all three machines are running Bitdefender and Malwarebytes (same editions), and I've had no problems with the two that do boot up with the option; including rebuilding and/or updating Boot and Rescue media.

What is noticeably different is that the two functional machines have the Boot menu set up as Win PE Release 1709 (64bit), whilst the non-functioning HP laptop has the Boot menu as Windows RE 10 Release 1903 (64 bit).  This may just be coincidence, but I'll have a look at the various Create Rescue Media logs to see if they offer any clues.

I've always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the Create Rescue Media options in any version of Macrium take care of which WIM is used to build menu or media, and do not require the end-user to alter this, to download another WIM or whatever. I have had Macrium, either paid or free, running on the two "good" machines for some time, and not encountered any problems. The machine that's giving trouble is a fairly low-powered device which my wife bought in a rush after her very expensive and well-specced Lenovo laptop died at the start of the first UK lockdown, and I'm a little constrained in what I can do to it without causing any glitches. My main concern is that it's due for update from W10 1909 to 2004, and I want to be able to recover back quickly if the usual Microsoft gremlins appear.


jphughan
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I don't think AV is the culprit here.  AV can prevent the boot menu option from being created in the first place, but System Configuration clearly shows it there, and you have a non-zero boot menu timeout option.  That should be everything you need to get that menu running, so unless you've got something hooking Windows at a very early stage in boot, it doesn't seem like third-party interference would be a possibility.  That said, try this.  In Windows, click the Start button, then the Power icon, the hold Shift while clicking Restart and continue holding it down.  You should get taken to an advanced startup menu.  Do you see a "Use another operating system" option?  If so, click it and make sure the Reflect option is in there (and may as well make sure it works).  If you don't see "Use another operating system", it means the BCD only has a single entry for Windows itself.

FanFox
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jphughan - 14 November 2020 3:56 PM
I don't think AV is the culprit here.  AV can prevent the boot menu option from being created in the first place, but System Configuration clearly shows it there, and you have a non-zero boot menu timeout option.  That should be everything you need to get that menu running, so unless you've got something hooking Windows at a very early stage in boot, it doesn't seem like third-party interference would be a possibility.  That said, try this.  In Windows, click the Start button, then the Power icon, the hold Shift while clicking Restart and continue holding it down.  You should get taken to an advanced startup menu.  Do you see a "Use another operating system" option?  If so, click it and make sure the Reflect option is in there (and may as well make sure it works).  If you don't see "Use another operating system", it means the BCD only has a single entry for Windows itself.

Thanks.
The Advanced Startup shows all the options, and the "Another OS" boots to the Macrium Reflect recovery screen. I haven't tried browsing to one of the backups, but I see no reason why that bit shouldn't work, and I'll have a look at that tomorrow.
To summarise, it's all there, apart from the Boot options screen at normal startup. I can't see anything else that runs at boot time which might inhibit it in any way, and I have tried to ensure as much consistency over my 3 machines as possible, to avoid any "odd man out" problems.

jphughan
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Just as a long shot, try going to System Configuration and changing your boot menu timeout to some other non-zero value, just to see if changing a setting somehow gets things working properly.  If that still doesn't work, try opening an elevated/admin Command Prompt and running "bcdedit /enum all" and pasting the output here.  I'd suggest posting it into a code block to suppress auto-formatting and things like smiley substitution.

FanFox
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jphughan - 14 November 2020 8:04 PM
Just as a long shot, try going to System Configuration and changing your boot menu timeout to some other non-zero value, just to see if changing a setting somehow gets things working properly.  If that still doesn't work, try opening an elevated/admin Command Prompt and running "bcdedit /enum all" and pasting the output here.  I'd suggest posting it into a code block to suppress auto-formatting and things like smiley substitution.

I've both increased and decreased the boot menu timeout, but still no dual choice menu. I've tried changing these settings using msconfig and systempropertiesadvanced, and in each case have changed them with one command and then checked the values with the other. Each time the changed value is correctly shown.

Next step as requested, and here is the BCDEDIT listing off the errant laptop:-
```

Firmware Boot Manager
---------------------
identifier     {fwbootmgr}
displayorder    {bootmgr}
        {8a5a06ff-265a-11eb-8267-806e6f6e6963}
        {8ee8ee7e-939d-11ea-817e-806e6f6e6963}
        {be924af9-8c67-11ea-817a-806e6f6e6963}
        {8a5a0700-265a-11eb-8267-806e6f6e6963}
timeout      0

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier     {bootmgr}
device      partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
path       \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi
description     Windows Boot Manager
locale      en-GB
inherit      {globalsettings}
default      {current}
resumeobject    {763f9822-7ca4-11ea-a379-b05cda1f7bca}
displayorder    {current}
        {01f0523b-265a-11eb-8266-d81265d9ba2e}
toolsdisplayorder   {memdiag}
timeout      11

Firmware Application (101fffff)
-------------------------------
identifier     {8a5a06ff-265a-11eb-8267-806e6f6e6963}
description     EFI USB Device

Firmware Application (101fffff)
-------------------------------
identifier     {8a5a0700-265a-11eb-8267-806e6f6e6963}
description     Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk

Firmware Application (101fffff)
-------------------------------
identifier     {8ee8ee7e-939d-11ea-817e-806e6f6e6963}
description     EFI USB Device

Firmware Application (101fffff)
-------------------------------
identifier     {be924af9-8c67-11ea-817a-806e6f6e6963}
description     Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier     {01f0523b-265a-11eb-8266-d81265d9ba2e}
device      ramdisk=[C:]\boot\macrium\WinREFiles\media\sources\boot.wim,{ramdiskoptions}
path       \windows\system32\boot\winload.efi
description     Macrium Reflect System Recovery
osdevice      ramdisk=[C:]\boot\macrium\WinREFiles\media\sources\boot.wim,{ramdiskoptions}
systemroot     \Windows
nx        OptIn
detecthal     Yes
winpe       Yes

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier     {0bf8d501-7cac-11ea-b615-b05cda1f7bca}
device      ramdisk=[\Device\HarddiskVolume4]\Recovery\WindowsRE\Winre.wim,{0bf8d502-7cac-11ea-b615-b05cda1f7bca}
path       \windows\system32\winload.efi
description     Windows Recovery Environment
locale      en-GB
inherit      {bootloadersettings}
displaymessage    Recovery
osdevice      ramdisk=[\Device\HarddiskVolume4]\Recovery\WindowsRE\Winre.wim,{0bf8d502-7cac-11ea-b615-b05cda1f7bca}
systemroot     \windows
nx        OptIn
bootmenupolicy    Standard
winpe       Yes

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier     {current}
device      partition=C:
path       \windows\system32\winload.efi
description     Windows 10
locale      en-GB
inherit      {bootloadersettings}
recoverysequence   {0bf8d501-7cac-11ea-b615-b05cda1f7bca}
displaymessageoverride Recovery
recoveryenabled   Yes
isolatedcontext   Yes
allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
osdevice      partition=C:
systemroot     \windows
resumeobject    {763f9822-7ca4-11ea-a379-b05cda1f7bca}
nx        OptIn
bootmenupolicy    Standard

Resume from Hibernate
---------------------
identifier     {763f9822-7ca4-11ea-a379-b05cda1f7bca}
device      partition=C:
path       \windows\system32\winresume.efi
description     Windows Resume Application
locale      en-GB
inherit      {resumeloadersettings}
recoverysequence   {0bf8d501-7cac-11ea-b615-b05cda1f7bca}
recoveryenabled   Yes
isolatedcontext   Yes
allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
filedevice     partition=C:
filepath      \hiberfil.sys
bootmenupolicy    Standard
debugoptionenabled  No

Windows Memory Tester
---------------------
identifier     {memdiag}
device      partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
path       \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\memtest.efi
description     Windows Memory Diagnostic
locale      en-GB
inherit      {globalsettings}
badmemoryaccess   Yes

EMS Settings
------------
identifier     {emssettings}
bootems      No

Debugger Settings
-----------------
identifier     {dbgsettings}
debugtype     Local

RAM Defects
-----------
identifier     {badmemory}

Global Settings
---------------
identifier     {globalsettings}
inherit      {dbgsettings}
        {emssettings}
        {badmemory}

Boot Loader Settings
--------------------
identifier     {bootloadersettings}
inherit      {globalsettings}
        {hypervisorsettings}

Hypervisor Settings
-------------------
identifier     {hypervisorsettings}
hypervisordebugtype  Serial
hypervisordebugport  1
hypervisorbaudrate  115200

Resume Loader Settings
----------------------
identifier     {resumeloadersettings}
inherit      {globalsettings}

Device options
--------------
identifier     {0bf8d502-7cac-11ea-b615-b05cda1f7bca}
description     Windows Recovery
ramdisksdidevice   partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume4
ramdisksdipath    \Recovery\WindowsRE\boot.sdi

Setup Ramdisk Options
---------------------
identifier     {ramdiskoptions}
description     Macrium Reflect System Recovery
ramdisksdidevice   partition=C:
ramdisksdipath    \boot\Macrium\boot.sdi
```



jphughan
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I don't see anything obviously out of sorts on your BCDEdit output. Windows Boot Manager has a timeout specified and has both the regular Windows 10 entry and the Reflect Rescue item in its boot order list.  At this point I'm suspecting something going on with your system firmware.  You have some "Firmware application" entries, and having just checked my own system's output, I do as well.  That surprised me, because I wiped my system when I first received it and reinstalled Windows from regular Microsoft media, and yet my BCDEdit output shows several entries related to Lenovo diagnostic/recovery boot options.  That relationship makes me wonder if the system firmware might somehow be suppressing the Windows Boot Manager interface in favor of just going straight to the default item.  But as a test, try raising your boot menu timeout to something like 90 seconds.  Does your system then take noticeably longer to boot even if it still might not actually display the menu?  Or does it still take the same amount of time, in which case it really would appear that the menu is being bypassed entirely rather than being hidden.

L. W. "Dan" Danz
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I compared the BCDEdit output of @FanFox with my own HP Laptop ... and there is one glaring difference having to do with what's displayed:
From @FanFox:
Firmware Boot Manager
---------------------
identifier {fwbootmgr}
displayorder {bootmgr}
{8a5a06ff-265a-11eb-8267-806e6f6e6963}
{8ee8ee7e-939d-11ea-817e-806e6f6e6963}
{be924af9-8c67-11ea-817a-806e6f6e6963}
{8a5a0700-265a-11eb-8267-806e6f6e6963}
timeout 0


I have timeout 5.   I don't understand the reasoning behind this but when
@jphughan
said timeout = 0 prevented display, I got curious.   This may be a red herring, because the display order it is creating is different than the one that displays the Macrium boot code.  I don't know where the "5" came from ... my own setting is 2 seconds, set from msconfig, and visible in the later portions of the output.


  L. W. "Dan" Danz, Overland Park KS  

jphughan
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@DanDanz That's the firmware boot menu, which is normally suppressed on systems.  Notice that the boot options listed under that section are Windows Boot Manager and the IDs of various firmware applications.  The timeout value that governs how long the interface allowing the user to select Windows or Reflect Rescue should be displayed is the one under Windows Boot Manager, since Reflect Rescue adds a Windows Boot Manager entry, not a firmware-level entry -- and that's the one that gets adjusted by MSConfig.

Edited 15 November 2020 5:27 PM by jphughan
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