Running file and folder backups kills network/internet access.


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Yanta
Yanta
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Here's a really weird one. Been happening for the last week or so.

When I run a file and folder backup to an external drive connected to a different PC (Which I've been doing for years without issue), the backup kills my Internet access. Games disconnect, pings respond "request Timed Out" and so on. If I try to access a share on the server, where the external drive is connected it just hangs.

Image backups don't exhibit this issue.

File and Folder backups will complete as it seems to recover for a little while, progress the back up and stop again. A backup that normally takes 5 minutes now takes 32 minutes.

I've not installed any Windows updates on my PC recently.

I did recently downgrade my Server 2019 to Server 2012 R2, but not sure if the problems started after that. Server 2019 had erratic file copy speeds and a multitude of WSUS bugs. The Server 2012 R2 installation came from a working image I took a couple of months ago. When I last used it in March 2020 it was working fine. No client back up issues. As I said, not sure if this is related, just throwing it in there.


Edited 4 June 2020 6:41 AM by Yanta
Drac144
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How are you connected to that external computer (direct via hardwired network or via wireless)?  Is that the same way you connect to the internet?
Yanta
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Drac144 - 4 June 2020 10:28 PM
How are you connected to that external computer (direct via hardwired network or via wireless)?  Is that the same way you connect to the internet?

My PC is connected to 10G switch via CAT6 cable. That switch is connected to another 10G switch via fiber cable. The server is connected to the second switch via CAT6 cable.

Both PCs use Aquantia AQN107 NICs. Latest drivers are installed.

I am not a fan of Wi-Fi for many reasons, not the least of which is security.

The second switch also has the 10G cable which runs via internally wired CAT6 through the walls to the downstairs patch panel. That patch panel connects to the router and NTD for Internet access. I am on a 100/40 FTTP fiber connection to the Internet. Though, this is a network issue, not an internet issue.

The server contains all hard drives for content storage. The are two externally connected drives used for backups. One connected via USB 3.0 Gen 1, a 10TB drive which stores all file and folder backups. The other is connected via USB Type C 3.1 Gen 2, a 10TB drive which is used to store image backups.

There are 33 backups run every day, and a few extras for some monthly backups on the 1st and 2nd of each month. Those 33 backups cover multiple file/folder backups of 10 PCs and an image of each PC each day. Two PCs have two images per day, and the server also does an extra backup for my Kodi content.

Yesterday I went to run a special backup of my Mozilla folders (browser and thunderbird email). The mrbak file is 1.7GB. That normally takes less than a minute. It took 9 minutes and killed the network 5 times. Curiously, I restored the data after doing some testing with various versions of Thunderbird and was missing 2 months of emails. Luckily I had also manually copied my email as what got backed up via Macrium was missing a large chunk of email.. Anyway, that's another mystery for later.

Today I am going to copy off 8TB of backups, reformat the drive and copy it back. I'll also run some diagnostics across the drive. I'll also reinstall the drivers on both PCs again, though they are already the latest and have been since Feb. Given manual file copies (in either direction), and image backups are fine, I don't suspect the patch cables. I've also power cycled both switches

Drac144
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Not sure how reflect could break your network.  All it is doing is reading data.  Maybe the high speed access clogged the network causing some other issue.  This could be related to OS or driver updates made recently. 

As to the missing emails.  Since this is not an image backup, VSS is not used.  Is it possible that you are using an email server and it is not keeping the email file you are backing up, current?  Or maybe that file got too large and the server opened a newer one?  I am not competent to speak on this issue, just some casual questions that might uncover a problem that fits the situation.
jphughan
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Drac144 - 5 June 2020 6:14 PM
Not sure how reflect could break your network.  All it is doing is reading data.  Maybe the high speed access clogged the network causing some other issue.  This could be related to OS or driver updates made recently. 

As to the missing emails.  Since this is not an image backup, VSS is not used.  Is it possible that you are using an email server and it is not keeping the email file you are backing up, current?  Or maybe that file got too large and the server opened a newer one?  I am not competent to speak on this issue, just some casual questions that might uncover a problem that fits the situation.

VSS snapshots are used even for F&F backups as long as the source is a volume on a fixed disk class device (i.e. not most USB flash drives if you're backing up files from them).  But that doesn't mean that the email application in question is taking appropriate action to get its files on disk into a consistent state when Windows is preparing to create a VSS snapshot.

Edited 5 June 2020 6:29 PM by jphughan
Drac144
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JP,

Thanks for the info.  I only do file/folder backups of data from a USB drive and I never saw a VSS reference in the log.  So I extrapolated and ASSUMED that was related to file/folder backups rather than source. 

jphughan
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Nope, it's because Windows doesn't support making VSS snapshots of removable storage class devices.  Although until recently, Reflect did try to get a snapshot (unsuccessfully).  Macrium fixed that in Reflect 7.2.4859 following a forum report about VSS failure messages when performing F&F backups from flash drives. Smile

Yanta
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I should not have muddied the water mentioning the loss of email in this thread, but what's done is done. My response to that is below..

There were no recent driver update between the time everything was working and when it stopped working. There were no infrastructure changes. I did restore Win 2012 R2 from a Macrium backup, which actually used the same NIC drivers as the 2019 version that was running previously. I don't recall though whether the problem started before I restored to Win 2012 R2.

As to "it's only reading data". Well, reading and writing. True. And that's why I started the OP with "Here's a weird one" Please keep in mind, I've been on 10G for a 15 months. This problem started 2 weeks ago. The backup strategy used here has not changed since I purchased Reflect on Black Friday last year.

I've finished testing the hardware. No drive issues. I moved the drive into the server (to eliminate the "It's because it's external" suggestion). Same deal.
I copied the data off, scrubbed the drive and copied it back. Same deal.
So I replaced patch leads and power-cycled switches. Same deal.
Checked NIC settings like RSC, Jumbo frames, etc. Nothing changed there. But tried different settings anyway. Same deal.
Check drive caching, tried different settings. Same deal.

I've added the log file of one of the backups that is schedule to start at 22:00 and used to run for 8 minutes. It started at 00:49 and ran for 29 minutes. The delay was caused by other backups running over time with the same issues.

So far, no resolution.

Email
This is not the first time email has disappeared using Reflect - but it was an omission on my part, not a fault with Reflect.

I use Thunderbird. ALL Email is stored on my local internal Samsung 970 Pro 1TB drive. (Not the C:\Drive). On F:\Users\tanya is my firefox and thunderbord profiles folder.

Email is deleted from the POP server when collected here (That is done by using filters). I do not trust online services of any kind, and do not want to leave email on their servers any longer than absolutely necessary.

The backup for this backs up the profiles folder and the following;

c:\users\tanya\appdata\roaming\thunderbird
c:\users\tanya\appdata\Local\thunderbird
c:\users\tanya\appdata\roaming\mozilla\Firefox
c:\users\tanya\appdata\local\mozilla\Firefox
h:\Firefox (The cache folder)

Luckily I always double back up... One with reflect and one with a manual file copy. If not for that I would have lost 2 months of email.

And therein lay the problem. There is an extra folder, outside the F:\users\tanya\profiles folder that contains the actual email. F:\mail\mail store.
I've since fixed that by adding that to the backup. I will test what happens if I move it under the profiles folder.

My own fault. Sorry.

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Edited 6 June 2020 6:01 AM by Yanta
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