MR v6 doesn't "see" thumb drive with image files


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Diane Wilkinson Trefethen
Diane Wilkinson Trefethen
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I apologize if this has been asked before. How can I access my image files? I am moderately knowledgeable but no expert.

1) Using MR v6, I made a recovery thumb drive for my old Compaq Presario tower, WinXP SP3 32-bit 160g Seagate hard drive. Then I made an image of my old hard drive on another thumb drive, usb 3.0 256g.

2) Bought a Dell 7510 laptop; no OS, no optical drive. The recovery drive boots but MR cannot see the thumb drive with the image files. I tried
a) booting up with both drives in a usb port,
b) booting up with just the rescue drive and then adding the drive with the image files and
c) booting up, removing the rescue drive, and replacing it with the image files drive. MR continues to show the contents of the rescue drive.

3) Put the image files drive in my Raspberry Pi and the Pi could read the drive.


Thank you for any suggestions/help.


jphughan
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Short version: If you really need to access your image files from Rescue, you'd need to create Rescue Media from a system running at least Windows 7, and do so by choosing to use WinPE 10 as the Base WIM.  You can use Reflect Free for this purpose if needed.  However, realistically you'd want to get a modern OS installed onto that new system and then just access those image files from within Windows rather than restoring your old system's backup onto the new one.  More details on both below.

Long version: The fact that you created the Rescue Media from a Windows XP system is the underlying cause here.  The newest version of WinPE that Windows XP can work with to create Rescue Media is WinPE 3.1, which uses the Windows 7 kernel.  That kernel has no native support for USB 3.0 controllers, which your new system has.  The reason you can still boot from the flash drive is that during the boot process, the system firmware/BIOS has control of the USB interface.  But after an OS loads (such as WinPE, which runs Rescue Media), the system hands control of the USB interface over to the OS -- but if the OS doesn't actually support that USB controller, then you lose the ability to use it at that point, which means you then find yourself in the curious position of your OS not being able to see the flash drive it just booted from.  The reason the Rescue Media environment still works rather than just crashing abruptly at that point is because WinPE loads itself entirely into RAM during its initial boot, so it's not actually running from the flash drive after it loads.

All that said, it's not clear what specific laptop model you bought ("Dell 7510" could be a Dell Inspiron, Vostro, Latitude, XPS, or Precision 7510), but if you're planning to restore your Windows XP image onto it, I'd strongly advise against that.  First of all, that likely wouldn't work anyway because Windows XP drivers won't be available for most or all of your Dell 7510 hardware regardless of which specific model it is.  As just one example, USB 3.0 drivers for Windows XP don't exist, even as a separate installation, which means your system's USB ports won't work if you run XP on it.  I suspect other hardware will be non-functional as well.  But even if it weren't for that, running Windows XP here in 2020 brings a whole host of other concerns.  I'd suggest the following:

- Perform a clean install of Windows 10 since even Windows 7 is no longer receiving security updates anymore.  Microsoft has a tool to help you create bootable Windows installation media here.  You'll need to purchase a license to activate it after installation if the system isn't already licensed for Windows 10.
- Install Reflect on the new system.
- Using Reflect running inside Windows, browse your image backups, which will mount them as a virtual drive inside Windows and allow you to extract whatever data you need out of them.

Edited 5 February 2020 6:34 PM by jphughan
Diane Wilkinson Trefethen
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Dear jphughan,


Thankyou for taking the time to respond to my questions. I do not wish tojust recover some files from my backup of my hard drive; I want touse the image files to restore XP. I plan to configure my DellPrecision 7510 to dual boot with WinXP as my primary OS and Linux,probably Ubuntu, as the second OS.

Fromwhat you say, it sounds like I could create an MR Free, Win7 bootablethumb drive using WinPE 10 as the Base WIM and then use that to “see”the thumb drive containing my WinXP image files. Then I could use MRFree to restore the XP image to my Dell Precision laptop. Once thatwas done, I could reboot from the Dell HDD. Then the next step wouldbe to upgrade my MR v6, create a new rescue media and then do abetter job keeping my updates up to date. Will this plan work? Am Imissing something?

Ithink you think that Win10 is the only sensible Windows system touse. I do not. I like XP because it does what I want. Although usingit will carry challenges and risks, they will be MY responsibility todeal with. I detest the arrogance with which Microsoft treats itsWin10 customers. My best friend wakes up every morning to newupdates, changed defaults, and it’s driving her crazy. She cannotuse her own computer unless she logs in. I find that outrageous.

Again,thank you very much for your help and if there are any gotchas I’vemissed, I would truly appreciate hearing from you again.

Respectfullyyours,

Diane



jphughan
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Hey Diane,

The process you describe will allow you to restore your XP image onto your Precision 7510 in the sense that Reflect will put that data onto the system's HDD, but regardless of what you think of XP or Windows 10, I seriously doubt your Precision 7510 will actually boot that restored Windows XP environment.  Even if you were to use Macrium ReDeploy after performing the restore, Windows XP obviously won't have built-in support for the Precision 7510's hardware, so ReDeploy would likely need you to supply drivers for certain boot-critical hardware in order to inject those drivers into the restored Windows image.  But looking at the Dell Support page for the Precision 7510, the oldest Windows version for which drivers are available is Windows 7, which is two generations newer than even XP and uses a very different OS kernel compared to XP, so Windows 7 drivers are highly unlikely to work on Windows XP.  That means that even if you somehow got XP to boot, you'd almost certainly find that most of your hardware won't work properly or at all.  You will likely end up with no WiFi, no Ethernet, no usable USB ports, and no graphics capabilities beyond rudimentary functionality, i.e. a completely unusable environment.  Unfortunately it simply isn't realistic to expect that an OS that is over 18 years old now will run on relatively recent hardware.  And even if all of that weren't a problem, your Windows XP environment would likely fall out of its activated status when you started it up on completely different hardware, and there's no way to buy a new Windows XP license anymore.  (And 32-bit Windows also means you'd be limited to using only 4GB of RAM, regardless of how much is installed in your system.)

If you're also planning to run Linux on this system anyway, then if you insist on continuing to run XP, you'd be much better off running it as a virtual machine.  That removes the hardware compatibility issue, and the Precision 7510 will have plenty of horsepower for a VM, especially running an OS as old as XP.  That would also allow you to have both Linux and XP running simultaneously if desired, which you might find convenient.  That said, I doubt that your specific XP image from your old system would boot as a virtual machine, so the VM route would likely require starting from a clean XP installation -- and either way, you'd still have XP activation issues in the VM.  Ironically Reflect 7 actually has a feature called Macrium viBoot that is specifically designed to allow you to boot a Reflect image as a virtual machine because it includes technology to "adjust" the image file (non-destructively) to allow it to be booted as a VM, but viBoot requires Windows Hyper-V, which is only available in the Pro and better versions of Windows 8 and above.  And viBoot doesn't sidestep the license issue either, so it's best used for things like testing image backups, booting an image backup briefly in order to recover data, or longer-term operation in a disaster scenario in enterprise environments that use enterprise OS licensing models.

As for updates, I certainly share the annoyance at frequent updates (although they aren't daily), but frankly that's a necessary byproduct of the security landscape we live in these days.  And while I have my own gripes with Windows 10 both as a regular user and as an IT professional, I'd much rather use an OS that's still receiving updates so that I stay protected than escape the annoyance of updates by trying to use the Internet on an OS like XP that hasn't been patched in almost 6 years and consequently now has several known major security vulnerabilities that won't ever be fixed.  Even the major browser vendors have all long stopped providing security updates to their browsers when installed on XP.  That simply isn't a safe way to use the Internet these days, and eventually that lack of ongoing browser support will mean that you'll lose functionality in addition to security, because your "frozen in time" browser version won't support new Web standards that emerge and get implemented by websites.  In fact if you've tried to get started on a fresh XP SP3 installation recently, it's a chore.  For example, the included IE browser doesn't support the security standards required by almost all websites these days, which means you can't browse anywhere -- not even to a website where you'd download a different browser -- so you literally have to use another PC to download a full standalone/offline browser installer file and copy it to your XP system.  But even that would be a challenge if XP doesn't allow your 7510's network adapters or USB ports to work.  And that browser will still already be sorely outdated.  And XP doesn't have UAC, which was singlehandedly responsible for a massive drop in successful malware infections compared to XP (until ransomware became a thing, which doesn't require admin privileges).  Running as a standard user on XP most of the time would deliver similar protection to UAC, but most people don't do that, and even that wouldn't protect you from malware that leveraged a privilege escalation vulnerability that existed in XP and has remained unpatched.

I'm not sure what you mean that your friend can't use her computer unless she logs in.  User logons have existed since even before Windows XP, so you always have to log in.  Do you mean that her user account is required to have a password?  If so, that isn't actually true.  It's still possible to have a user account that doesn't have a password, although Microsoft admittedly does make it difficult to achieve that.

Bottom line:
If you're already planning to use Linux and are unhappy with all versions of Windows newer than XP, then this new system should arguably be used as your moment to cut ties with Windows entirely in favor of Linux.  If on the other hand you could make your peace with Windows 7 even if not Windows 10, then it seems that OS would in fact work on the 7510 -- although you'd need a license for it, which would be difficult to get at this stage since the vendors still selling licenses are selling pirated licenses.  However, Microsoft stopped providing security updates for Windows 7 just last month (after more than a decade), and I would therefore expect browser vendors to stop providing updates to Windows 7 systems before too long as they did with XP -- so even on Windows 7 you'd have the security risks I already described right out of the gate, and you'd just be kicking the "functional degradation" can down the road a way.

I don't think Windows 10 is the only sensible version of Windows to use based on any dislike for previous versions or a belief that Windows 10 is perfect.  I think it's the only sensible version of Windows to use because there are too many risks and problems with the previous versions here in 2020.

Edited 6 February 2020 6:46 PM by jphughan
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Could be her friend has W10 setup with a Microsoft Account login rather than a Local Account. Local accounts can be setup for no password but I use a Microsoft account since it makes using multiple devices with the cloud, contacts, etc so much easier for me.

Jphughan's rationale should be given very, very serious consideration. I also strongly suspect that XP will hobble that computer. I  also say that users with your attitude towards avoiding updates is exactly why MS now gives them whether you like it or not. They took a lot of flak for well publicized Windows security problems when they had already issued patches for them earlier but users didn't want to do the updating to correct them thus propagating the problem. The only update I get frequently is the MS anti-virus software update and it doesn't cause me any grief.

No, I don't think W10 is perfect but it also contains a lot of internal improvements that aren't visible at the UI level.
Drac144
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I run Windows XP home addition as a  virtual machine on my win 10 home system.  It works just fine.  However I do not use VIBoot or Hyper V.  I use VMWare Player.  It is a free product (for non-commercial use).  You can create the VM by using another free product from VMWare.  It is called VMWare Converter - but you can Google it.  I have been using this for many years - since Win 7, I believe.  You can use Google to find out how to use the converter program to create a virtual machine.  I have a copy of the old converter program, somewhere - in case you cannot find it online.
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Drac144 - 6 February 2020 8:24 PM
I run Windows XP home addition as a  virtual machine on my win 10 home system.  It works just fine.  However I do not use VIBoot or Hyper V.  I use VMWare Player.  It is a free product (for non-commercial use).  You can create the VM by using another free product from VMWare.  It is called VMWare Converter - but you can Google it.  I have been using this for many years - since Win 7, I believe.  You can use Google to find out how to use the converter program to create a virtual machine.  I have a copy of the old converter program, somewhere - in case you cannot find it online.

So your XP VM was originally an XP installation on an actual PC at some point, and you ran VMware Converter while it was still there in order to get the VM you have now?  And Windows activation has never complained despite the fact that it's now in a VM rather than on its original hardware?  That's surprising, although if that entire process would still work today, then this might be a nice solution to the OP's issue.  VMware Player is also available for Linux, and VMware Converter would handle making the necessary changes to the outgoing system's XP environment in order to allow it to run as a VM, so the OP could have a pure Linux system on which an XP VM could be started as needed.

And Drac144, just out of curiosity, what are you still using XP for?

Edited 6 February 2020 8:42 PM by jphughan
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JP,

Yes, you are correct that the VM was once a real working XP system when I ran the converter software on that live system.  I have never had any issue with Windows verification.  If it is running in the VM doesn't it think it is the SAME computer configuration that existed when it was converted?  It is possible that I did an activation after I started running the VM.  Since the VM is the same regardless of the software of the host, it may not see any change in the config that would trigger a reactivation.

I only use a few programs on the XP VM.  The main one is accounting software that I use for my business and my wife's business written in FoxPro 2.5.  I think there is a program called Foxite that can run these old versions of Foxpro on Win 10.  But the VM has worked fine for the past 10 years.  I also run a calendar program that keeps track of all the family and friend birthdays, anniversaries, etc.  It can print a monthly calendar page with all the events filled in for each date (as well as all the holidays, etc.). I am not sure if there is a version that runs on newer versions of Windows or not.  Because I do not use Windows Pro, I do not have the emulator that might allow running old software in new Windows. 

I do not use the Pro version because I do not want or need to deal with all the ACC or AD issues.  I had clients that used Pro and dealing with permissions and unblocking took a lot of support time (at least every time they added new software or added/ removed an employee).  I don't need that kind of protection and appreciate not having to deal with it.  The home version is also cheaper, has a smaller footprint, etc. And, as I said, I do not need it.

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Drac144,

FoxPro.... In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi, "Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time." Smile

There are plenty of calendar apps that can print a monthly calendar page with all events filled in on each date fyi, including Outlook.  And if your calendar app supports even rudimentary export options, getting birthdays and anniversaries out of whatever app you're using into an app that runs on a newer platform should be simple.  It's not as if those occasions would have complex recurrence patterns that would make accurate exports difficult to achieve.  Same for holidays, although modern providers like Google and Apple typically offer holiday calendars where all of those are pre-created anyway.

When you say you don't use the Pro version, are you talking about Windows?  If so, the Pro version doesn't include any sort of "emulator" other than Hyper-V, but that itself is just a hypervisor, not an emulator because you still have to provide the guest OS.  However, only 32-bit versions of Windows can run 16-bit applications; 64-bit versions won't do that.  As for the rest, I don't know what ACC stands for in this context, but if "AD issues" means Active Directory, simply running a Pro version of Windows that supports being joined to an AD domain doesn't create issues all on its own.  You don't have to use that capability.  But if your reference to dealing with permissions and unblocking things was in the context of systems that were actually joined to an AD domain, then it sounds like your clients may not have known how to run AD properly.  I administer an AD environment for an accounting firm and I find it absolutely fantastic because having centralized user accounts and groups that can then be used for setting permissions and rights on any system in the domain is exceedingly handy, as is the ability to run Group Policy.  It's a whole lot easier to add and remove employees when you have a single user account database than a bunch of local systems.  Adding a new employee in the latter environment would mean creating a new user account for them on every system that they should be able to access from their own PC, or else using shared credentials.  With AD, you just create the account and they can immediately log on anywhere they should be able to, no need to touch individual systems.  Similarly, locking an employee out would involve disabling all of their disparate accounts across various systems or changing passwords on shared accounts whose credentials they knew, the latter of which would inconvenience everyone ELSE who used that shared account.  But you do have to know how to use the tools properly, I guess -- as with many things in life.  Still, you don't have to use Home just to escape all of that.  You can just choose to run Pro without joining it to a domain.

I personally always opt for Pro to gain 3 features: Hyper-V, the ability to RDP into my system so that I can use my personal PC from my work PC when I'm home without needing to have any extra software installed on either one, and the ability to use BitLocker and BitLocker To Go.  Those features easily justify the $50-100 cost difference over Home for me.  Other bonuses include access to GPEdit and Local Security Policy, and the ability on Windows 10 to switch to the Semi-Annual feature release track, which receives feature updates a few months after the "Semi-Annual (Targeted)" track that Home editions are locked onto.  That last one was handy given how rocky some of the last few feature releases have been, although Microsoft has since dispensed with those tracks and I think even the Home version lets you defer feature updates for a specified time period now.

Anyhow, back to the VM, no your VM would not think it's still running on the same PC that existed before it was converted.  The VM host would emulate classes of hardware to provide services like networking, audio, etc., but it can't emulate the specific device models that your particular PC had, so your Windows environment would see for example that things like your graphics card model, network adapter model, audio adapter model, HDD serial number, and motherboard serial number would all be different in the VM environment compared to whatever you had before.  If you reactivated the XP installation inside the VM environment though, then that activation would persist for as long as you keep that VM platform consistent, so that may indeed account for your ability to keep using that VM -- although it would then raise the question of whether the OP's conversion would escape any need for reactivation.

Edited 8 February 2020 12:48 AM by jphughan
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JP,

Since the last reactivation (if any) was many years ago I cannot remember how it was done or whether it was done. Is it possible that XP is so old MS does not bother with reactivation?  I have had my current computer for about 5 years and the host system has moved from Win 7 to Win 10 (several versions) with no activation.  I am on the current version of Win 10, but my system does not automatically update versions (it does automatically install all error updates). Prior to 5 years ago I had a couple of Dell systems.  My current computer is from Puget Systems.  A great company with superior hardware (but more expensive than Dell).  They also allow a lot of customization in configuring systems and the customer/tech support is outstanding (end of commercial).

I only use the VM for the listed programs and they are fine in the VMWare setup.  So I do not need Hyper V.  I do not use encryption so do not need Bitlocker.  I thought at one time the Pro version came with a module that could run software written for DOS or XP under the Newer version of Windows. The ACC reference was Account Control Center and was infamous for popping warnings or blocking operations because some setting was not exactly right.  And there were a LOT of settings.  That could be great for a large company that wants to lock down users.  But it is just me, here.  And even my client who had 5 users and 5 computers (plus a server) did not need all that control.  Their system was originally set up by a large "downtown" IT company used to dealing with companies of hundreds or thousands of users.  I don';t think they knew how to deal with this small company (the owner was a friend of the large company's president) so they just did what they usually did which was major overkill - and a major expense for the smaller company.  When I started assisting that small company (to help them reduce maintenance expenses) I did what I could to strip out all the controls that were complicating the efficient use of the system.  That was a problem for me since I was not an expert on Pro features.  While AD was of some help with the multiple employees, it was more in the way then a benefit. All the (5) employees needed access to everything so a simple system with minimal internal security would have been easier. 

I use RDP daily to connect to client computers.  I do not need anyone to RDP into my system.  If I did there is free software (download and install an RDP Wrapper Library) to enable it on WIN 10 Home. 

I started standalone database programing (as opposed to database software designed to be called by other programs) with dBase.  I used that for a while and after a brief stint with Clipper I moved to Foxpro Version 1.1 (or maybe 1.2) for DOS and never looked back.  I used Foxpro versions all the way up to the final version (version 9 for Windows).  Still have it but only use it to make occasional manual changes to database records of tables used by the accounting software (which I wrote).  I wrote many other programs.  A couple were sold commercially and were for specific industries (dance studios, gymnastic studios, Backflow prevention device installers, etc.). Some were one offs for specific clients.  Now my database work is limited to SQL server doing DBA duties as well as programming: creating stored procs and tables to run in-house listing management for large real estate agencies. I also write VBScript programs to move data from external sources (like MLS's) into SQL. If I need more sophisticated programs I have a guy for that.  He writes in C++ and can handle projects that are not well suited for VBScript.

There may be programs that can do as good a job with the calendars as the program I used (called Almanac) but it allows complicated dates and handles things that do not occur on the same day each year (like Easter).  Since this program works well and I only access it twice a year to print out 6 months worth of calendar pages for my wife, I see no reason to switch to another program.  This one does everything I need.

As to my VMWare and running Win XP - all I can say is that it works for me.  I can get updates to VMWare (just had to update from player version 7 to version 15 to allow Win 10 - 1909 to install) so I should be good for the foreseeable future.  Not sure how many more years I will be doing this - you can tell from Foxpro comments and other statements I have made here that I am getting long in the tooth (or maybe I am already there).

GO

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