Windows 10 Upgrade issues


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Dypsis
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GTK48 - 7 January 2016 5:51 PM
I just deleted it. I don't need it.

Deleted what?

Richard V.
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This topic was about "Windows 10 is adding an extra partition to many users' systems as part of the upgrade process" and the post by GTK48 immediately after the one that you quoted said "I removed it since I use MR!".  So, in the absence of any other explanation, I suspect it was most likely the extra added recovery partition that got deleted.  People tend to assume that no Windows recovery partition functions will be needed when they have backup software.


Regards, Richard V. ("Arvy")
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Edited 7 August 2016 11:08 AM by Arvy
BGregory
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I'm using MBR/Legacy boot with 2 partitions:  Partition 1 is my OS (C), partition 2 is my Data(D).  After the update I had 3 partitions: Partition 1 was my OS(C), partition 2 was a small recovery partition with space taken from C, and the 3rd partition was my Data.  My backup XML file was set to include partitions 1 and 2.  I realized this only AFTER I ran a backup on the updated Win 10 and tried to restore it to a test HD.  My DATA partition was not on the backup (because it was now the 3rd partition).  Fortunately I caught this.  I deleted the recovery partition and added the space back to C, then ran another backup. Just wanted to mention this for anyone else with a configuration as mine..  Would have been nice if Microsoft mentioned this during the update.!! 

Arvy... I deleted the recovery partition because I never needed it in the past. Why would I need it?


Edited 7 August 2016 3:09 PM by BGregory
Richard V.
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You probably wouldn't.  At least I hope not.  On the other hand, things like the Windows OS "Refresh" option rely on its being there.  Maybe even access to "Safe Mode" in some cases.


Regards, Richard V. ("Arvy")
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Edited 7 August 2016 6:40 PM by Arvy
peter09aug2016
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After such upgrades like 1511 there are two WinRE partitions, namely the previous one, sized about 500MB, and the new one, sized about 800MB. The previous one is kept to allow undoing the upgrade, and remains registered in BCD. The new one is placed at the end of C: in order to allow for further expansion. All need to be included when backing up The Partitions Needed to (back up and) Restore Windows.
MSR or Reserved (unique to GPT) does not play any role here, and is not to be confused with System, ESP or System Reserved.
I found that in some upgrades, on MBR style computers, there is no new WinRE, whereas in others, GPT style, there was a new WinRE. Sometimes this already happened on the upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 or Windows 8.1 Upgrade. There are really various scenarios about where "System" and "Recovery" are placed. They may be separate partitions, or "Recovery" function is contained in C:, rarely in "System", or both functions are contained in C:.

+ Recently I worked on a new computer, its SSD was split into C: and D: . It would have created the new WinRE in the middle of the SSD, when applying the 1511 upgrade. Therefore I combined C: and D: into one C: before doing the upgrade. The SSD needed no splitting as there was another large HDD.

Edited 22 August 2016 9:57 AM by peter09aug2016
Richard V.
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All need to be included when backing up The Partitions Needed to (back up and) Restore Windows.

If you're referring to the Reflect option to "Create an image of the partition(s) required to backup and restore Windows", that has always excluded any and all WinRE partitions in my experience.  Personally, I just select the entire OS drive (all partitions) for my own system backup images.

__
Please Note: There is a more recent Featured Post on the subject of Windows 10 Anniversary Update Issues.

Regards, Richard V. ("Arvy")
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Edited 22 August 2016 4:28 PM by Arvy
dyhs
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Arvy - 22 August 2016 3:43 PM
All need to be included when backing up The Partitions Needed to (back up and) Restore Windows.

If you're referring to the Reflect option to "Create an image of the partition(s) required to backup and restore Windows", that has always excluded any and all WinRE partitions in my experience.  Personally, I just select the entire OS drive (all partitions) for my own system backup images.

__
Please Note: There is a more recent Featured Post on the subject of Windows 10 Anniversary Update Issues.

Maybe something has changed? I use Macrium Reflect 6.3.1821 and "Backup" - "Backup Windows" automatically selects W10 Recovery (WinRE) partitions too (both of them, on a GPT SSD).
Stuart Tunstall
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Hi

 I have just updated my notebook to the latest fall version, 1709 and it is now doing a full backup rather than an incremental, which is confusing..

 In the running back up it states full...


But in Reflect it states incremental is runing...



I cant see an extra partition... this is what I see when I open Reflect how can I check if I have any extra unknown partitions? I presume as this is the first screen I do not have any extra partitions?


I presume now a new full is created the incremental/diffential will continue as normal from tomorrow?

Also

I presume it is to do with the above, how do I get it to recognise my old backups if I need to restore back to the old Windows i.e last nights incremental? Can I still restore to my last back up from the old version of Windows if needed? As you can see it shows zero backup sets.. Sad 

STuart
Edited 28 November 2017 8:46 PM by Stuart Tunstall
jphughan
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You don't have an extra partition, but what probably happened is that during the Windows 10 upgrade, your C partition was shrunk to expand the size of the partition immediately to the right of it, i.e. Partition 4.  That's the Windows Recovery partition, not to be confused with the last partition on your disk also labeled Recovery, which is probably from your PC manufacturer rather than Microsoft.  Even changing the existing partition layout without creating/deleting any partitions is enough for Reflect to stop making Incrementals on an existing set.  If you want to verify that you're suffering from shrinkage Tongue, then open Reflect, go to the Restore tab, select an image from before the upgrade, and click "Browse Image".  Check the "Capacity" figure for that Partition 4 and see if it's less than the current 969 MB size.

You see "Incremental" in your second screenshot because the schedule does indeed say to run an Incremental.  But because Reflect can't run an Incremental for the reason stated above, it's instead running a Full.  That's why the log says "Full - Incremental specified but...."  Another scenario where you'd get a Full even if you specified an Incremental would be if you connected a disk that contained no backups.  You wouldn't have to create a Full manually for your scheduled Incremental to work; instead, Reflect just automatically switches to a Full when conditions don't permit an Incremental.

Yes, after that unexpected Full completes, your schedule will run as normal -- at least until the next Windows 10 release if the OS partition needs to be shrunk again to accommodate an even larger Recovery partition.  And since Microsoft has said they plan to release new Windows 10 versions every March and September, this is likely to happen more frequently.

Your old backups are still there and Reflect can still restore them; it just can't append new backups to them.  If you wanted to roll back, the process would be exactly the same, although from experience, I can tell you that if you want to roll back to a backup that was created from a previous release of Windows 10, I would recommend restoring your EFI (System) partition, the MSR partition, the OS partition, and the Windows Recovery partition -- or the first 4 partitions on the disk in your case. Note that if you ever did that, the backups of your system after the restore would start appending to your previous image set, NOT the latest set that reflected the post-upgrade disk layout.  If you didn't have that set anymore, then the first post-restore backup would generate a new Full since again, the disk layout would be different from what's contained in the most recent backups you performed prior to rolling back to a pre-upgrade backup.

Edited 28 November 2017 9:26 PM by jphughan
Stuart Tunstall
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jphughan - 28 November 2017 9:00 PM
You don't have an extra partition, but what probably happened is that during the Windows 10 upgrade, your C partition was shrunk to expand the size of the partition immediately to the right of it, i.e. Partition 4.  That's the Windows Recovery partition, not to be confused with the last partition on your disk also labeled Recovery, which is probably from your PC manufacturer rather than Microsoft.  Even changing the existing partition layout without creating/deleting any partitions is enough for Reflect to stop making Incrementals on an existing set.

You see "Incremental" in your second screenshot because the schedule does indeed say to run an Incremental.  But because Reflect can't run an Incremental for the reason stated above, it's instead running a Full.  That's why the log says "Full - Incremental specified but...."  Another scenario where you'd get a Full even if you specified an Incremental would be if you connected a disk that contained no backups.  You wouldn't have to create a Full manually for your scheduled Incremental to work; instead, Reflect just automatically switches to a Full when conditions don't permit an Incremental.

Yes, after that unexpected Full completes, your schedule will run as normal -- at least until the next Windows 10 release if the OS partition needs to be shrunk again to accommodate an even larger Recovery partition.  And since Microsoft has said they plan to release new Windows 10 versions every March and September, this is likely to happen more frequently.

Your old backups are still there and Reflect can still restore them; it just can't append new backups to them.  If you wanted to roll back, the process would be exactly the same, although from experience, I can tell you that if you want to roll back to a backup that was created from a previous release of Windows 10, I would recommend restoring your EFI (System) partition, the MSR partition, the OS partition, and the Windows Recovery partition -- or the first 4 partitions on the disk in your case. Note that if you ever did that, the backups of your system after the restore would start appending to your previous image set, NOT the latest set that reflected the post-upgrade disk layout.  If you didn't have that set anymore, then the first post-restore backup would generate a new Full since again, the disk layout would be different from what's contained in the most recently backups you performed prior to rolling back to a pre-upgrade backup.

Thank you for the great and much simpler explanation of how it works, great for a novice like me Smile

I still think Microsoft should give you the option to install updates rather than force them, it has gone well apart from a couple of minor issues with HP Software, the 3D Guard and Coolsense which even after i updated to there so called fix still seem to not work... Sad see what they have to say..

Only other issue is some missing icons in the app section

Name:  icon.JPGViews: 8Size:  36.0 KB

No idea why they are missing and just blank squares...

At least I know if I do get sick of 1709 and find any major issues I can go back to my last (last night) version of 1703 Smile I would indeed restore the first 4 partitions Smile 

Just checked the definition file and went to amend it, as you say shows the same 5 partitions Smile



One other question, when my back up starts and it notifies me it gives you options to not postpone or select a time... the last twice this has said postpone for 4 hours by default, how is this changed?

Edited 28 November 2017 9:18 PM by Stuart Tunstall
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