New issue - running a scheduled full backup ran twice


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dbminter
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I've had Scheduled Tasks just randomly fail to run, too, even with no DST involved.  It just seems to affect Monthly tasks only and tasks only imported as XML files.  If you manually create the Task yourself, it seems to run okay.  And they will just randomly "die" on you, failing to run at all except Manually.  Microsoft's implementation of the Scheduled Tasks simply, well, stinks.  It has difficulty executing the simplest, well, tasks that are scheduled to run on Monthly schedules.

cousinit99
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jphughan - 5 March 2019 8:37 PM
Ah ok, I thought you might have been in a location that had a DST change this past Sunday since it's that time of year.  If that's not the case, then if the schedule specifically for your Full backups has behaved normally since the previous time change up until this past weekend, I'm not sure how to account for that.  Sorry!

Either way, appreciate the input and the assist.  Thanks
donald24
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But Macrium must be aware of this bug, and still do nothing about it. If this is fixed through a simple recreation of the schedule, then why the heck is this not automated by the Reflect-service?

Don't they know, don't they care? For a company selling this product for productive servers.. well I won't complete this sentence...

At home only I have 12 schedules to recreate after a DST-change, reminds me of turning the wheel back and forth of each non-intelligent watch... Come on Macrium, even when M$ will ever fix that bug, it would be a really good idea to recreate schedules after DST occures automatically. Is this rocket-science?
Somebody from the team reading here?

Drac144
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I understand that there is a lot of frustration regarding the issue.  And I understand that since Macrium took the easy (?) way out and decided to use the Windows scheduler to run timed backups, they should have SOME responsibility to make sure that feature works.  However, I have used Reflect for many years and have never experienced the problem.  So this is not some hard bug - that can easily be found and fixed.  It seems to only occur on some (and I am guessing only a few) systems.  If Macrium cannot reproduce the bug, it makes it a lot harder to figure out what the problem is and what to do about it.  

If you can offer a scenario that works - and it is something that Macrium can add to Reflect or can supply as a standalone process (like recreate all definition files or remove and re-register all scheduled tasks used by Reflect) then that would seem to be a fair request.  Is that the case here?  Is there a specific fix that works all the time and fixes the issue?  If not, what is Reflect supposed to do - other than find an alternate way to implement scheduled tasks?  They could have one entry in the Windows scheduled task manager and get control once a minute and then check all reflect tasks to see if any need to be started.  I am not sure how hard that would be (I am thinking not very hard) but is it worth making that change unless a large number of people are having the issue?  

I don't believe it is a matter of whether Macrium cares or not.  They are a company and they are in business to make money and as such they need to make good business decisions.  Trying to chase down elusive bugs in other company's software or even trying to create workarounds for them could be a waste of time better used to improve Reflect for all users. 

Have you tried to see what is going on within your system that is different than systems of other users that do not experience the issue?  That may yield a better outcome than hoping Macrium can or will try to find a solution.

dbminter
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Plus, the problem isn't Macrium's to fix.  Microsoft is at fault with this issue.  They need to fix it because it's been in Windows for years and affects scheduled tasks beyond Reflect's.

BobUlius
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Drac144 - 6 March 2019 9:59 PM
I understand that there is a lot of frustration regarding the issue.  And I understand that since Macrium took the easy (?) way out and decided to use the Windows scheduler to run timed backups, they should have SOME responsibility to make sure that feature works.  However, I have used Reflect for many years and have never experienced the problem.  So this is not some hard bug - that can easily be found and fixed.  It seems to only occur on some (and I am guessing only a few) systems.  If Macrium cannot reproduce the bug, it makes it a lot harder to figure out what the problem is and what to do about it.  

If you can offer a scenario that works - and it is something that Macrium can add to Reflect or can supply as a standalone process (like recreate all definition files or remove and re-register all scheduled tasks used by Reflect) then that would seem to be a fair request.  Is that the case here?  Is there a specific fix that works all the time and fixes the issue?  If not, what is Reflect supposed to do - other than find an alternate way to implement scheduled tasks?  They could have one entry in the Windows scheduled task manager and get control once a minute and then check all reflect tasks to see if any need to be started.  I am not sure how hard that would be (I am thinking not very hard) but is it worth making that change unless a large number of people are having the issue?  

I don't believe it is a matter of whether Macrium cares or not.  They are a company and they are in business to make money and as such they need to make good business decisions.  Trying to chase down elusive bugs in other company's software or even trying to create workarounds for them could be a waste of time better used to improve Reflect for all users. 

Have you tried to see what is going on within your system that is different than systems of other users that do not experience the issue?  That may yield a better outcome than hoping Macrium can or will try to find a solution.


I'm the topic starter. Its been a bit, but I recall sending logs and confirming this bug with Macrium, not "if Macrium cannot reproduce the bug, it makes it a lot harder to figure out what the problem is and what to do about it. "

How would you know how many people have this issue?

And the fact that you do not have the issue does not make it any less of a bug. It may and may never get fixed, but it IS a bug.

~Bob

donald24
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dbminter - 6 March 2019 10:12 PM
Plus, the problem isn't Macrium's to fix.  Microsoft is at fault with this issue.  They need to fix it because it's been in Windows for years and affects scheduled tasks beyond Reflect's.

No, we all know whose fault it is. But if you build a house on "uncertain ground" and sell it, it is going to be your problem, when the owner complains that the structure shifts.
The solution that a company sells should work as advertised, you cannot simply put the blame on a company, that their subfunctions don't work. That would be too easy, and every trial between customer and Macrium would be won.
We've already talked about a possible workaround, why not just implement it? Even moreso, it's an easy fix code-wise....
dbminter
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BTW, what exactly is the possible workaround?  I'd like to know since DST is coming up this Sunday, I think, for me.  I'd like to know to see if I can implement it myself instead of deleting and recreating the jobs.


Thanks!

Edited 6 March 2019 10:52 PM by dbminter
jphughan
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Given how disruptive it can be for people affected by it, especially the version that causes all subsequent executions of the task to fail after a DST change, this bug would almost HAVE to be very rare even among all users of Windows for it to have persisted across this many major releases of Windows without a fix from Microsoft. And as useful as Reflect is, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that only a small percentage of all Windows installations have Reflect installed and set up for scheduled backups, so the number of people affected by this issue who are also Reflect users would seem to be quite small.

As for mitigations, I can see both sides of the responsibility argument, in that it’s Microsoft’s bug to fix, but Macrium decided to tie a core function of their application to this Microsoft component. But even setting that question of whether Macrium SHOULD take responsibility for fixing this aside, I wonder whether having a service “reset” scheduled Reflect tasks in the background might end up more often creating NEW problems for people who didn’t previously have them than fixing this problem for the people who are experiencing it, which obviously would not be a net benefit. I also seem to recall Macrium talking about working on implementing their own scheduler engine, but a) that’s more work, and b) it’s not even a given that that would be better. I remember back when I had a client using Symantec Backup Exec, which used its own scheduler service, I had a calendar reminder to bounce all of that application’s services after every DST change because....the backups would always fail after that change and continue to fail until that was done. Symantec even had a KB article about this issue with that recommended as the “fix”.
Edited 7 March 2019 1:27 AM by jphughan
dbminter
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I admit, I've kind of wished Reflect had its own backup service.  I'm so sick of Task Scheduler failing at the drop of a hat to run tasks, either because of DST changes or importing XML's set to to run a Monthly schedule.


To be honest, I've pretty said sc*** Task Scheduler and use my e-mail's scheduler function to send me monthly e-mails as reminders for monthly tasks.  Then, I just execute them manually.  Hence why I've got shortcuts to all my Reflect XML jobs.  I created shortcuts in a dedicated Start Menu folder to access them all in one convenient place.

GO

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