After updating to 7.0.2187, split backup Verifies "fail" and then succeed on each part.


Author
Message
dbminter
dbminter
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K, Visits: 52K
I didn't.  Smile  I made the suggestion I would, but I hadn't actually done it yet.


EDIT: I even just did my daily restart of Windows, which I hadn't done yet because I'd been testing this issue.  Plus, I was away from the PC for a while.  Even restarting didn't make the issue return.  So, I don't know what to say.  I've done pretty much all I can do at this point and just submitted the various system and backup logs and XML to Support.

Edited 29 May 2017 10:23 PM by dbminter
dbminter
dbminter
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K, Visits: 52K
It returned with this morning's Daily backup.


EDIT: With its return, I reran the tests that were expected to fail yesterday, but passed.  I don't think it's the USB cable that is the problem, as I stated before.  I ran a test to make sure the problem was still there and then reran a test where an SATA and USB source were being backed up to an SATA target.  The problem was still there.  So, I tried imaging just the SATA source to an SATA target.  The problem was still there.  So, it seems, most likely, the problem is not the USB cable as backups not involving USB in any way did the same thing.  Given the problem occurs on splits and there have been issues with split backups in recent revisions of Reflect, I would say the problem is most likely within the software.  Doesn't mean it is, though.  Smile

Edited 30 May 2017 5:30 PM by dbminter
dbminter
dbminter
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K, Visits: 52K
[quote]
Nick - 29 May 2017 8:12 PM
As you have observed, this hasn't actually affected the backups but annoyingly has increased the verification time.


I'll say it has.  Smile  It's noticeably increased it.  It's added on average 3 minutes to the total backup time.  Interestingly enough, back when a Macrium update was adding pauses to Verifies, these pauses were adding about 2 to 3 minutes to my total backup time, too.

Richard V.
Richard V.
Most Valuable Professional
Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2K, Visits: 8.1K
So, it seems, most likely, the problem is not the USB cable as backups not involving USB in any way did the same thing.

My previous comments notwithstanding, I'd have to bow to that logic.  Seems irrefutable to me.  One wonders if Reflect's internal calculations based on split file sizes may differ somehow between creation and verification, but even that should be more consistent.  Hopefully your direct support request ticket and/or Nick's further analysis can come up with a better suggestion for you.

Regards, Richard V. ("Arvy")
https://forum.macrium.com/uploads/images/afc5d4fe-5d25-4e25-be94-185e.png

Nick
Nick
Macrium Representative
Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)
Group: Administrators
Posts: 3.2K, Visits: 22K
@dbminter,  @Arvy

This verification issue isn't related to splits, verification is independent of file size and is a separate process, that is, the file is closed and re-opened for verification. No calculations of file length is involved.  There has been one other report of this issue here:

http://forum.macrium.com/Topic14469.aspx

This example isn't creating a splits. Interestingly both known cases have Kaspersky AV installed. Perhaps you could eliminate this as a cause?

The latest release, v7.0.2187, has added an automatic fallback to a slower verification in the event of auto verification failure. The slower verification is, in fact, the same verification used in v6 and the initial releases of v7. The newer verification has been 'beefed up' to use multiple threads with asynchronous reads. The downside of the faster read is that it's less tolerant of a poor data path, so the fallback to the slower verification is there to make absolutely sure. A data path, such as USB 3.0 or SATA can suffer dropouts when approaching it's bandwidth limit if cables are poorly connected or shielded.  

We continue to try and reproduce, but haven't yet been able to.  

Kind Regards

Nick

Macrium Support

Next Webinar

See our reviews on

Trustpilot Logo
Trustpilot Stars


Edited 30 May 2017 7:28 PM by Nick
Richard V.
Richard V.
Most Valuable Professional
Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)Most Valuable Professional (4.1K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2K, Visits: 8.1K
A data path, such as USB 3.0 or SATA can suffer dropouts when approaching it's bandwidth limit if cables is poorly connected or shielded.

That would remain my first guess.  As I mentioned, I have seen several instances of erratic SATA cable connection performance as well as USB.  On the other hand, eliminating the possibility of AV interference would certainly be worthwhile and probably an easier step to try first.
__
P.S.: Beefed up multi-thread verification with fallback sounds to me like an excellent improvement under most circumstances.


Regards, Richard V. ("Arvy")
https://forum.macrium.com/uploads/images/afc5d4fe-5d25-4e25-be94-185e.png

Edited 30 May 2017 7:54 PM by Arvy
dbminter
dbminter
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K, Visits: 52K
I am about to test the AV portion.  I don't use Kaspersky unless that is the AV engine in ZoneAlarm Free Firewall + AntiVirus.  It could be CheckPoint farmed out to Kaspersky for their AV engine in their firewall software.  I don't know.


EDIT: Unfortunately, can't test it now.  The problem went away again.  I tested again to make sure it wasn't working before disabling AV test.  The problem wasn't there again.  But, it may reappear tomorrow when the Daily backup is run.

Edited 30 May 2017 7:55 PM by dbminter
Nick
Nick
Macrium Representative
Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)Macrium Representative (5.4K reputation)
Group: Administrators
Posts: 3.2K, Visits: 22K
@dbminter

Than for getting back.  I've replied to your support ticket showing the Kaspersky filter drivers. 

Kind Regards

Nick

Macrium Support

Next Webinar

See our reviews on

Trustpilot Logo
Trustpilot Stars


dbminter
dbminter
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K, Visits: 52K
Unfortunately, I can't test the AV part now because the problem went away again.  Sad  Because the issue is not always reproduceable and seems to come and go without any kind of repetition, it's hard to debug such an issue, I know.


EDIT: Testing the PE part as requested probably wouldn't help because I can't get a persistent repetition of the issue.  It could always be possible that restarting would "clear" out the issue.  I know yesterday when the issue went away and I restarted Windows to see if it would come back, it didn't come back.  I will still try it, though, on the off chance it does happen when I start PE.

Edited 30 May 2017 8:00 PM by dbminter
dbminter
dbminter
Macrium Evangelist
Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)Macrium Evangelist (7.7K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K, Visits: 52K
To anyone else who found this thread searching for the same issue, 7.0.2191 seems to fix this problem.  Whenever it becomes available to mass distribution, or a later version.  I won't know for "sure" until tomorrow morning when the Daily backup runs.  As I've had this issue go away and then come back come the next Daily backup.

GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Reading This Topic

Login

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search